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pne4eva2003
23-03-2009, 07:15 PM
My elder brother is 50 next year and would have been at Preston Catholic College the same time as what these alleged "sexual assaults" took place...I know the Priests were extremely strict and taught with an iron rod. My brother once got the strap on his hands that hard that it made his fingers swell up and he had to use both hands to get hold of the knob on the door to open it...Do you want help with that the Priest who dished it out asked him...No sir and with all the guts and determination he could muster opened that door on his own. It was two thick pieces of leather with a piece of wood running down the middle. My brother won student of the year awards for the first three years he was there but in his final year he took a day off (with the say so of my mum and dad) so he could start a job over the holiday season at Coxhead's...this is what he got caned for....even though he had permission off his parents! He also played football for Preston Catholic College, once watched him play at Deepdale...so I'm sure he must know the Priest and the person who is alleging such incidents.

An ex-pupil at Preston Catholic College was the victim of "insidious" abuse by a priest, a court has heard. Patrick Raggett, 50, says he was measured naked, indecently touched and forced to shower with Father Micahel Spencer.

Mr Raggett, who has waived his right to anonymity, is suing the Jesuit-run school for 5m in a landmark case at the High Court.

The former city lawyer was close to tears as he described how he was abused by Fr Spencer.

Mr Raggett said he suffered years of under-achievement at work, a failed marriage and binge drinking - but did not link his experiences at the school until he had a breakdown in April 2005.

The High Court heard how Mr Raggett said he had a golden childhood and had done exceptionally well at school before he went, in 1969, to the College which "the Jesuits ruled with a rod of iron".

Robert Seabrook QC, said the College, which closed in 1978, was rigorous in educational matters and administered corporal punishment for failure.

Fr Spencer taught French and coached football and used his obsession with the sport and photography to augment his deviant tendencies.
Full article:-
http://www.lep.co.uk/news/Pupil-39measured-naked39-by-priest.5099957.jp

shaky
23-03-2009, 07:19 PM
Cue Motiv and an "All Christians are Paedos" rant!

AndySaville
23-03-2009, 07:55 PM
Cue Motiv and an "All Christians are Paedos" rant!

No just Catholic Priests. Same thing happened regularly at Stoneyhurst College.

pne4eva2003
23-03-2009, 08:09 PM
No just Catholic Priests. Same thing happened regularly at Stoneyhurst College.

I didn't put it on to tar all Catholic Priests with the same brush...it's local news and the fact my brother went there it shocked me when I read it. We've been down the path of Priests ALL being sexual offenders in the past on here...they are not and it seems such a waste of time to go down the same path again :o

outreacher
23-03-2009, 09:59 PM
The Evening Standard have this one covered as well.

Puts Preston on the map, if the nationals get hold of it, PCC are in for a rough ride (not a pun).

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23665836-details/Ex-City+lawyer+tells+of+torment+over+sex+abuse+by+sch ool+priest/article.do

Hitman31
23-03-2009, 10:00 PM
I know three people who were at the college during this period. Father Spencer has a notoriety with all of them. Although none claim to have suffered in the same way this chap does, all agree that the behaviour of this particular priest was paedophilic. He used to particularly enjoy what he called 'whacking' boys. I'll leave it to your imagination what that was. I can't imagine there will be any difficulty in finding volunteers to corroborate this guy's story.

motiv
23-03-2009, 10:59 PM
Cue Motiv and an "All Christians are Paedos" rant!

No need to. The press do it for me each day.

What is it with Christians and kiddy feeling. Is it written somewhere in the bible or something. Who in their right mind would send their kid to a catholic institution nowadays with all these sickos working in them!

cpnend
23-03-2009, 11:00 PM
I went to Cath Coll at the same time and was taught by the Priest in question. Whilst I did not personally see or experience anything, looking back on it, I remember things that I dare say would not be allowed today. Nor would I, as a parent, be happy with them. But nothing was explicit and they could easily be innocent. Who can tell, times have changed.

The bit about being hit with the strap / ferula is accurate but I only recall one priest giving out punishment - Dickie Birch -a truly fearsome man. Pop Moulding was the guy to avoid if you were getting 'cracks'. A fat jolly bloke who had perfected the wrist action necessary for maximum punishment. I wouldn't say however that I got the impression that the teachers were a bunch of sadists, we just had the normal spectrum of teachers that a 1200+ school would attract. Some you could take liberties with, others you didn't.

Notwithstanding the above I look back on my time there with fondness, and other than the lack of girls, wouldn't change anything in retrospect.

The majority of priests were, in my experience hard working and long suffering and gave their time, if not their lives, for the benefit of the pupils.

It would be a shame if he has sullied their legacy,

Lostin Yorkshi_
23-03-2009, 11:06 PM
I know three people who were at the college during this period. Father Spencer has a notoriety with all of them. Although none claim to have suffered in the same way this chap does, all agree that the behaviour of this particular priest was paedophilic. He used to particularly enjoy what he called 'whacking' boys. I'll leave it to your imagination what that was. I can't imagine there will be any difficulty in finding volunteers to corroborate this guy's story.

Having been at the school at the same time as Patrick Raggett and Fr. Spencer I might be in a position to comment on this.

We also had Fr Spencer as our football coach and at times he did exhibit some strange behaviour. IMO none of this would lead to the consequences Mr Raggett is suggesting.

Mr Raggetts view of the disciplinarian nature of the school is complete fantasy.

The majority of teachers were not priests (I remember a total of 6 priests teaching) and discipline was only administered for misbehaviour not failure to perform. In our year I held the record for the reciept of corporal punishment, this was very rarely administered by the priests. Of the 96 ferulas (a leather strap beaten across the palm, containing no wood or whalebone, as I remember) I recieved only six were administered by a priest.

While Fr Spencer's behavoiur was far from appropriate I'm pretty sure that Mr Raggett (who I remember as the most arrogant individual to attend PCC) has embilished his story hoping to blame his failure in life on a dead priest and make a sack full of money in the process.

IMO Fr Spencer, who used much of his spare time to help run Preston Schools Football for many years, had some serious faults (exhibiting homosexual tendencies) but was not the monster depicted by Mr Raggett.

Nor was PCC the Jesuit Colditz of Preston.

Lostin Yorkshi_
23-03-2009, 11:49 PM
No need to. The press do it for me each day.

What is it with Christians and kiddy feeling. Is it written somewhere in the bible or something. Who in their right mind would send their kid to a catholic institution nowadays with all these sickos working in them!

So when religion is gone paedophiles will disappear?

When all paedophiles are aethiests will we have to re-invent religion?

jakehake
24-03-2009, 12:00 AM
Mr Raggett said he suffered years of under-achievement at work

Can he play centre-mid?

motiv
24-03-2009, 12:18 AM
So when religion is gone paedophiles will disappear?

When all paedophiles are aethiests will we have to re-invent religion?

No, just the Church, especially Catholic church, has a tendency to attract and hide these evil men.

pne4eva2003
24-03-2009, 12:52 AM
I was about 13 years of age when my brother got caned and told my mum, am mid forties now,...so not bad going for my memory re the caning I don't think :o ...For some reason I always thought it had a strip of wood inside it...by that I don't mean a plank or anything...anyway I apologise for that....I did recognise the name ferula once it was pointed out to me. I've not had chance to talk to my brother yet but I do also remember him saying there was one certain Priest who was nasty at giving punishments out and this was the one who caned him and that is why he was adamant he would open the door himself.

My brother played in the Preston Catholic College football team and he also played water polo...The school was a fabulous school...though my brother didn't miss the girls as he climbed the walls of Lark Hill...I think it was this school or the other local girls school...name escapes me at the moment. The open days were brilliant and it was there I saw my ever first game of a water polo competition as the school had their own pool and I've never seen it live since...only on tv years ago. I remember Eddy Brown coming from there to teach the lads football at All Hallows and he also took some pupils for French and he was one of the best and friendliest teachers ever at All Hallows....and of course he had played for PNE at one time :D

Lostin Yorkshi_
24-03-2009, 01:36 AM
I was about 13 years of age when my brother got caned and told my mum, am mid forties now,...so not bad going for my memory re the caning I don't think :o ...For some reason I always thought it had a strip of wood inside it...by that I don't mean a plank or anything...anyway I apologise for that....I did recognise the name ferula once it was pointed out to me. I've not had chance to talk to my brother yet but I do also remember him saying there was one certain Priest who was nasty at giving punishments out and this was the one who caned him and that is why he was adamant he would open the door himself.

My brother played in the Preston Catholic College football team and he also played water polo...The school was a fabulous school...though my brother didn't miss the girls as he climbed the walls of Lark Hill...I think it was this school or the other local girls school...name escapes me at the moment. The open days were brilliant and it was there I saw my ever first game of a water polo competition as the school had their own pool and I've never seen it live since...only on tv years ago. I remember Eddy Brown coming from there to teach the lads football at All Hallows and he also took some pupils for French and he was one of the best and friendliest teachers ever at All Hallows....and of course he had played for PNE at one time :D

The ferula was rumoured to have a whale bone inside it but from experience I remember it as a leather strap. I'm very grateful to the school as I am sure I would have done much worse if I had gone elsewher. Winkley Square was the other girls school, run by a group of latent lesbian nuns:rolleyes:

Your brother will know Steve Bradley who used to coach water polo and athletics. He was a really great guy who ended up at Ribbleton Hall but could be a bad influence at times;). I knew Eddie Brown well too.

As I have stated elsewhere the behaviour of one, maybe two priests left a lot to be desired and I witnessed some "strange" behaviour but nothing I would call serious abuse.

This behaviour should not have happened and I would not tolerate children being subjected to this.

pne4eva2003
24-03-2009, 01:43 AM
The ferula was rumoured to have a whale bone inside it but from experience I remember it as a leather strap. I'm very grateful to the school as I am sure I would have done much worse if I had gone elsewher. Winkley Square was the other girls school, run by a group of latent lesbian nuns:rolleyes:

Your brother will know Steve Bradley who used to coach water polo and athletics. He was a really great guy who ended up at Ribbleton Hall but could be a bad influence at times;). I knew Eddie Brown well too.

As I have stated elsewhere the behaviour of one, maybe two priests left a lot to be desired and I witnessed some "strange" behaviour but nothing I would call serious abuse.

This behaviour should not have happened and I would not tolerate children being subjected to this.

Oh yes...Winkley Square...I nearly went there and would have done if they had not built All Hallows...mum and dad didn't want me going to St. John Fisher...which was the school most had to go to because St. Cuthbert Mayne had stopped taking children in from the South Ribble side the year I was due to go to secondary school. They would have only had to pay half fees for me with Paul going to Catholic College...he was the one with the brains in our house :D I can't ever recall my brother ever saying anything about "strange" behaviour but will definitely have a natter to him about this article in tonight's LEP.

I know one of the teachers used to take the lads into a pub in town and they played pool...this wouldn't have been Steve Bradley would it because that name seems to ring a bell?

White Womble
24-03-2009, 02:07 AM
I know one of the teachers used to take the lads into a pub in town and they played pool...this wouldn't have been Steve Bradley would it because that name seems to ring a bell?

Yep! the one and only Steve Bradley!

pne4eva2003
24-03-2009, 02:13 AM
Yep! the one and only Steve Bradley!

He took my brother into a pub in town to play pool and my brother ended up playing for the pub pool team at aged just 15! Didn't they always used to call the lads by their surname at Preston Catholic College as well? I remember my brother commenting about being caught practicing playing pool one lunch time in a pub and a teacher walked in (brother wasn't drinking) and he hid behind the door...come out (surname) he said...He didn't get caned for that so I reckon that must have been Steve Bradley then as well lol.

Lostin Yorkshi_
24-03-2009, 02:45 AM
Yep! the one and only Steve Bradley!

Great guy, I had many a drink with him and he made a belting stew. He actually helped a friend of mine arrange an abortion:eek:

Lostin Yorkshi_
24-03-2009, 02:48 AM
He took my brother into a pub in town to play pool and my brother ended up playing for the pub pool team at aged just 15! Didn't they always used to call the lads by their surname at Preston Catholic College as well? I remember my brother commenting about being caught practicing playing pool one lunch time in a pub and a teacher walked in (brother wasn't drinking) and he hid behind the door...come out (surname) he said...He didn't get caned for that so I reckon that must have been Steve Bradley then as well lol.

Your brother was either one year or two years above me. We'll probably know each other, at least vaguely.

shaky
24-03-2009, 08:37 AM
So when religion is gone paedophiles will disappear?

When all paedophiles are aethiests will we have to re-invent religion?

He doesn't get it Lostin, paedophiles will seek a position where they can access vulnerable children, for example childrens homes, schools, the scouts, the church and social services.

It has absolutely nothing to do with religion.

cpnend
24-03-2009, 09:19 AM
Pete Singleton, the other PE teacher, was also a sound guy. I still remember Eddie Brown's mantra, 'down on the left Gentlemen please' everytime I go down the stairs in the Fishergate centre and I'm confronted by someone doing it wrong, (in my opinion). I also remember Athur Culshaw once making someone write an essay about the inside of a ping pong ball.

Ah, memories.

motiv
24-03-2009, 10:29 AM
He doesn't get it Lostin, paedophiles will seek a position where they can access vulnerable children, for example childrens homes, schools, the scouts, the church and social services.

It has absolutely nothing to do with religion.

Strange how they seek out positions in the churchg. Maybe because the lot of em are kiddie feelers.

Sickening to think people still send their kids to them. Then must be mental!

PTID
24-03-2009, 10:49 AM
I didn't put it on to tar all Catholic Priests with the same brush...it's local news and the fact my brother went there it shocked me when I read it. We've been down the path of Priests ALL being sexual offenders in the past on here...they are not and it seems such a waste of time to go down the same path again :o

Sav is not a catholic therefore he can tar them all with the same brush quite easily.

My dad was at Cath college, he's a couple of years older than your brother though Sharron, he turns 53 this year. Although he was at Cath College a year before he should have been. Passed his 11 plus when he was 10 so was in the year above.

He got whacked with a cane a few times on his hands. Says he deserved it each time though! He got whacked once for writing the answers to an exam on the inside of his pencil tin. :rolleyes:

Then he'd go home and get a slap off my nan round his head for getting the cane in the first place!

Lostin Yorkshi_
24-03-2009, 11:04 AM
Strange how they seek out positions in the churchg. Maybe because the lot of em are kiddie feelers.

Sickening to think people still send their kids to them. Then must be mental!

I think you will find that the vast majority of people who went to Catholic schools have fond memories of their time there and are grateful for the excellent education they recieved.

Despite the unacceptable behaviour of a tiny minority of priests I would have no objections to any of my family going to a Catholic school.

shaky
24-03-2009, 11:28 AM
I think you will find that the vast majority of people who went to Catholic schools have fond memories of their time there and are grateful for the excellent education they recieved.

Despite the unacceptable behaviour of a tiny minority of priests I would have no objections to any of my family going to a Catholic school.

My daughter went to Sacred heart catholic school in Ashton and isn't catholic. Surprisingly, she never got fiddled with at all, and says it was the best school she ever went to, and she had a few schools. Penny Bridge, Eldon, Sacred Heart, Berry Lane, Longridge high and Ulverston Victoria.

Poor old Motivs kids, which I doubt he will ever have because no woman would want his extremist views inflicting on children, would be terrified of bogeymen at most schools and all churches, what a frightening scenario for a child.

motiv
24-03-2009, 11:36 AM
My daughter went to Sacred heart catholic school in Ashton and isn't catholic. Surprisingly, she never got fiddled with at all, and says it was the best school she ever went to, and she had a few schools. Penny Bridge, Eldon, Sacred Heart, Berry Lane, Longridge high and Ulverston Victoria.

Poor old Motivs kids, which I doubt he will ever have because no woman would want his extremist views inflicting on children, would be terrified of bogeymen at most schools and all churches, what a frightening scenario for a child.

Strange how Christians always feel sorry for those who don't believe in fairy tales. Next it will be pity, then rage.

You're ok with your girl, she's..well..female. I doubt the priests are interested.

BTW, no point quoting lostin shaky, he has you on ignore!

PTID
24-03-2009, 12:05 PM
You're ok with your girl, she's..well..female. I doubt the priests are interested.

Well me, and my brother and at lease one of the cousins (male) went to Catholic schools. None of us ever had a problem.

Considering you don't enjoy people all being tarred with the same brush, and are all for free speech and the like, I find your attitude rather dated.

Lostin Yorkshi_
24-03-2009, 12:07 PM
Strange how Christians always feel sorry for those who don't believe in fairy tales. Next it will be pity, then rage.

You're ok with your girl, she's..well..female. I doubt the priests are interested.

BTW, no point quoting lostin shaky, he has you on ignore!

No I don't.:p

I'm agnostic and don't feel sorry for you.:)

motiv
24-03-2009, 12:15 PM
Well me, and my brother and at lease one of the cousins (male) went to Catholic schools. None of us ever had a problem.

Considering you don't enjoy people all being tarred with the same brush, and are all for free speech and the like, I find your attitude rather dated.

I know but it just riles nobber and shaky.




No I don't.:p

I'm agnostic and don't feel sorry for you.:)

Nobber said you had!

btw, agnostic/atheist. I take it you mean there may be a god, where I'm there's probably no god ;)

Lostin Yorkshi_
24-03-2009, 12:40 PM
btw, agnostic/atheist. I take it you mean there may be a god, where I'm there's probably no god ;)

I say "prove we are not a giant computer game".

motiv
24-03-2009, 12:41 PM
I say "prove we are not a giant computer game".

Too much red dwarf and matrix for you sir. Are you Dwain Dibley ;)

Lostin Yorkshi_
24-03-2009, 01:03 PM
Too much red dwarf and matrix for you sir. Are you Dwain Dibley ;)

No:(

Dark Matter is GOD.

When/if we discover dark matter as we currently understand it doesn't exist there will be something else we invent to explain why we can't explain.:confused:

Man will never be able to prove or disprove the existence of a deity or deities. It is fundamentally impossible.

Hmmmmm. I think I've just proved I believe in GOD.:confused:

motiv
24-03-2009, 01:17 PM
I don't think you have as a 'GOD' would have intelligence. So unless you're saying Dark matter has intelligence, then no that's not a God.

The improbability of the existence of gods/supreme powers is all we can go off. Spaghetti monsters, teacups orbiting planets and all the other made up gods that are used in conjecture, are there to point out that they wont exist. Unless you believe in the make believe.

If I believe in the spaghetti monster, it is up to me to prove that fact, rather than for you to disprove it. That is how empirical evidence goes. I prove to you, that something is true. You then set out to disprove that.

Does Dark matter exist, possibly. The facts lead to it in the same way gravity exists. You can't prove where gravity comes from in the same way as you can't prove where the dark matter exists but both are there in their own right.

Lostin Yorkshi_
24-03-2009, 01:30 PM
Does Dark matter exist, possibly. The facts lead to it in the same way gravity exists. You can't prove where gravity comes from in the same way as you can't prove where the dark matter exists but both are there in their own right.

Dark matter exists because current mathematics and science fails to predict the existence of 96% of the universe. Dark matter and dark energy are used to explain the failure of our science.

I prefer the giant computer game model. Zeus, Poseidon and Artemis control me.:)

motiv
24-03-2009, 01:58 PM
Dark matter exists because current mathematics and science fails to predict the existence of 96% of the universe. Dark matter and dark energy are used to explain the failure of our science.

I prefer the giant computer game model. Zeus, Poseidon and Artemis control me.:)

That's why science is so good. THe theories are all up on dark matter and energy. In fact some studies and science believe they have spotted matter and possibly dark energy.

Even if both these cases where wrong in their analysis of what happened, the 'maths' still state that something is there. Eventually it will be found.

Both Europe and the states have massive projects under way to analyse what it is and no doubt within the next ten years, we'll be another step towards understand the universe.

Each step we progress enlightens us in some ways and create new challenges in others.

There would be no dark matter to look for, if other scientists, such as Einstein didn't take other steps.

So you're no longer agnostic now. You're a believer in greek gods within a computer game.

Most people would call you nuts, well the Atheists would ;)

White Womble
24-03-2009, 02:53 PM
No:(


Man will never be able to prove or disprove the existence of a deity or deities. It is fundamentally impossible.

Hmmmmm. I think I've just proved I believe in GOD.:confused:

No, you have just demonstrated you are an agnostic

Northern Scum
24-03-2009, 03:11 PM
No just Catholic Priests. Same thing happened regularly at Stoneyhurst College.


What is Stonyhurst College? It's not a Jesuit Catholic School by any chance is it Saville?

A very complex debate this and one probably I am not qualified to comment on given I have no experience of being educated under such strict ruling.

However, I am Catholic educated and consider mself fortunate enough to have benefited from such disciplines, however, there is no dneying that the extremists in the religion, as is the case with many do give it a bad name.

Hitman31
24-03-2009, 05:56 PM
I believe that when the Catholic College closed down many of the teaching staff found employment at Stoneyhurst.

I don't think any defence of the college is really acceptable - then or now. I know people, for instance, who can vouch for the fact that Father Spencer used to shower with the boys, sometimes taking his camera in there with him. The details in this media article (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23665836-details/Ex-City+lawyer+tells+of+torment+over+sex+abuse+by+sch ool+priest/article.do) are particularly distasteful and it seems there has been no issue in finding people to corroboare the guy's allegations. As I've said before, I find it highly unlikely (given what I've heard) that there will be any difficulty in proving the case that this particular man is bringing against the college. However arrogant he may have been! And as many a child psychologist would tell you, arrogance is a common defence mechanism amongst the abused.

None of this is to say it wasn't possible to have a good time at the place for most people. It was just a good time that was grounded in adversity! I'm told it could be brutal. The people I know who went there look back on their time there with fondness but in spite of the behaviour of the Priests, certainly not because of them.

ashtonwhite
24-03-2009, 06:50 PM
The ferula was rumoured to have a whale bone inside it but from experience I remember it as a leather strap. I'm very grateful to the school as I am sure I would have done much worse if I had gone elsewher. Winkley Square was the other girls school, run by a group of latent lesbian nuns:rolleyes:

Your brother will know Steve Bradley who used to coach water polo and athletics. He was a really great guy who ended up at Ribbleton Hall but could be a bad influence at times;). I knew Eddie Brown well too.

As I have stated elsewhere the behaviour of one, maybe two priests left a lot to be desired and I witnessed some "strange" behaviour but nothing I would call serious abuse.

This behaviour should not have happened and I would not tolerate children being subjected to this.

pretty sure there was a Steve Bradley who drank (plenty) in the Empire Services 1980's+ - big guy - dark hair - may have lived in Lower Penwortham as he walked down Broadgate - going back to Catholic College - ex-pne keeper Simon Farnworth was a pupil - he saved my pee-roller of a shot.

Lostin Yorkshi_
24-03-2009, 06:54 PM
I believe that when the Catholic College closed down many of the teaching staff found employment at Stoneyhurst.

I don't think any defence of the college is really acceptable - then or now. I know people, for instance, who can vouch for the fact that Father Spencer used to shower with the boys, sometimes taking his camera in there with him. The details in this media article (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23665836-details/Ex-City+lawyer+tells+of+torment+over+sex+abuse+by+sch ool+priest/article.do) are particularly distasteful and it seems there has been no issue in finding people to corroboare the guy's allegations. As I've said before, I find it highly unlikely (given what I've heard) that there will be any difficulty in proving the case that this particular man is bringing against the college. However arrogant he may have been! And as many a child psychologist would tell you, arrogance is a common defence mechanism amongst the abused.

None of this is to say it wasn't possible to have a good time at the place for most people. It was just a good time that was grounded in adversity! I'm told it could be brutal. The people I know who went there look back on their time there with fondness but in spite of the behaviour of the Priests, certainly not because of them.

I don't disagree, I actually witnessed Father Spencer's behaviour on numerous occasions and I know that many others will have witnessed similar things. However I do have serious doubts about some of his more serious accusations and I consider his description of how the school was run as completely inaccurate.

What Father Spencer did was completely unacceptable but I have doubts as to whether the school knew. Another priest was removed from the school very quickly after an alleged incident.

The current case is to determine whether there is a case to answer, a claimant has to make his claim within 7 years (I think) of the time the damage became apparent.

The guy claims that he had suppressed his memeories until a breakdown in 2005. He did however appear to remember some aspects of his relationship with the priest in question when he wrote a piece for the book Perfect Pitch 4: Dirt. This was published in 1999.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/book-of-the-week-1092709.html

A reviewer says this:

"By far the finest piece in the book - indeed, the best writing I have read for some time - was the only unsolicited manuscript in any of the four volumes. Patrick Raggett gave up the law to take up journalism - and a good thing too on the evidence of his atmospheric memoir. "bells, smells and georgie best" (the contents page was clearly designed by e.e. cummings), is an account of his boyhood attachment to Manchester United in the 1960s and his slightly dodgy relationship with Father McCulloch, a Celtic-supporting bruiser of a Jesuit who thought nothing of laying out a skinhead or two outside Old Trafford."

This appears to be based on his relationship with Father Spencer and he describes this relationship as slightly dodgy.

I'm not convinced that Mr Raggett's underperformance at work was due to the abuse he suffered at the hands of Father Spencer. Apparently many of his problems at work were due to drug (probabbly cocaine) and alcohol abuse. I have never heard that sexual abuse leads to substance misuse.
Nor am I convinced that he only remembered the abuse in 2005.

motiv
24-03-2009, 07:11 PM
I'm not convinced that Mr Raggett's underperformance at work was due to the abuse he suffered at the hands of Father Spencer. Apparently many of his problems at work were due to drug (probabbly cocaine) and alcohol abuse. I have never heard that sexual abuse leads to substance misuse.
Nor am I convinced that he only remembered the abuse in 2005.

Are you denying he was abused?

Lostin Yorkshi_
24-03-2009, 07:17 PM
Are you denying he was abused?

No. The priest in question actaully came into the shower nude after our football training and dried some of my team mates off. We were all abused.

basketcase
24-03-2009, 07:20 PM
Catholic priests shagging kids? Who'd have thought??:eek:

Lostin Yorkshi_
24-03-2009, 07:27 PM
Catholic priests shagging kids? Who'd have thought??:eek:

Obviously something at the front of your mind as no-one else on this thread has even mentioned sodomy.:)

White Womble
24-03-2009, 07:49 PM
We were all abused.

"Trunks off" Clarkson

Pedro

and others.

Spencer was not the only one.

Lostin Yorkshi_
24-03-2009, 07:54 PM
"Trunks off" Clarkson

Pedro

and others.

Spencer was not the only one.

Clarkson?

Pedro was supposed to be gay but never heard of him doing anything. Probably due to scouts honour or something.

White Womble
24-03-2009, 08:08 PM
Clarkson?

.

swimming teacher before Bradley.

Lostin Yorkshi_
24-03-2009, 08:17 PM
swimming teacher before Bradley.

Never knew him before my time. I started in 1971 I think.

motiv
24-03-2009, 11:42 PM
Can I just say that this thread is truly unbelievable. Anyone else want to stand up and say "well apart from the violance and sexual abuse, the place was brilliant" because quite frankly, you may need help.

I am being quite sinceer too.

shaky
25-03-2009, 08:44 AM
Can I just say that this thread is truly unbelievable. Anyone else want to stand up and say "well apart from the violance and sexual abuse, the place was brilliant" because quite frankly, you may need help.

I am being quite sinceer too.

I am staggered, it seems that this was the norm in this school. Like I have said before, Paedos will always seek a position where they can access vulnerable children, it seems the entire staff here must have been party to what was going on. Terrifying.

Obviously in Motivs world though, it's because they believe in god.

pne4eva2003
25-03-2009, 09:25 AM
I haven't spoken to my brother personally but he's been talking about it with my mum because obviously she wanted to know whether he had ever been approached and he said..."Fortunately, I wasn't one of his cherubs"....of course he does now remember certain things once his memory has been jogged which could be construed as unsavoury but at the time hadn't noticed anything untoward.

Motiv...Hindsight is great. Yes at the time it was thought to have been one of the best schools in Lancashire and don't forget, even back then parents of these children were paying a lot of money to send them there it certainly got the results out of the lads when it came to qualifications/exam results and stood them in good stead for getting good jobs when they left. Do you honestly believe that these parents knew what was going on and I'm sorry but I don't for one minute believe that all the teachers knew either...I'm sure the likes of Eddie Brown wouldn't have let it continue even back then.

There are paedophiles in all walks of life...crikeys I even know of one who was a farmer!

cpnend
25-03-2009, 09:33 AM
"well apart from the violance and sexual abuse, the place was brilliant"

That is not what people are saying and you know it. But if twisting peoples sentiments allows you to carry on with your self appointed crusade against all thing religious then I'm happy for you. You may find it lonely on the moral high ground though.

shaky
25-03-2009, 09:54 AM
That is not what people are saying and you know it. But if twisting peoples sentiments allows you to carry on with your self appointed crusade against all thing religious then I'm happy for you. You may find it lonely on the moral high ground though.

Motiv has found Moses lost eleventh commandment.

"Thou must fiddle with kids!" :rolleyes:

White Womble
25-03-2009, 09:58 AM
Motiv...Hindsight is great. Yes at the time it was thought to have been one of the best schools in Lancashire and don't forget, even back then parents of these children were paying a lot of money to send them there r!

No, it was a church run state Grammar ie free

pne4eva2003
25-03-2009, 10:09 AM
No, it was a church run state Grammar ie free

It certainly was not. My mum and dad had to work hard to send my brother there...in fact that's why my mum got a job. My brother either sat his eleven plus or just missed taking it, and his teacher, Mrs. Adamus at St. Mary Magdalens in Penwortham told my parents that he was too clever just to be sent to St. Cuthbert Mayne. She asked them to send him to Preston Catholic College...my mum then had to go out and get a job to pay for him to go there. When I was leaving St. Mary Magdalens in 1975...my parents would have got me in for half price fees at either Winckley Square or Lark Hill...can't remember which one now...because of the fact that my brother was at Catholic College....Once he left there then the fees for me would have gone up to full price. Every term my mum used to have to fork out her hard earned cash....it wasn't free.

Knowing my mum she will still probably have the receipts from such payments.

White Womble
25-03-2009, 10:24 AM
It certainly was not. s.

When i was there (66-74) it was a state school with no fees

pne4eva2003
25-03-2009, 11:04 AM
When i was there (66-74) it was a state school with no fees

My brother is 50 next year so would have been there at the same time as you...I started secondary in 1975 and he's three years older than me so that would make it 71/72 when he started there. Honestly my mum had to pay for him and it was the sole reason as to why she went to work...all her wages went on Preston Catholic College fees and I know for a long time she did keep her original receipt for his first year there, just for a keepsake...I will definitely ask her to find it and if she can't will just tell you what she tells me. I don't know whether there is any reason why some kids would have to pay and others not...different schools they came from...whether they took the eleven plus or not etc., etc., but my mum and dad definitely had to pay....because we all struggled for his flipping education! :)

motiv
25-03-2009, 11:06 AM
Motiv has found Moses lost eleventh commandment.

"Thou must fiddle with kids!" :rolleyes:

Perhaps it's all that repressed sexual anger at not being allowed to get their ends away?

Who knows why the Church attracts these types of people but it's uncanny that they do, time after time.

and as the ten commandments go, well you've got a mix of sane ones which every human tries to follow or be beat up or lynched and some very quirky ones that sound like some jealous person has written and not a god.

"You shall have no other gods before me" - translates to "I'll throw my dummy out of the pram

shaky
25-03-2009, 11:16 AM
I have explained to you why the church attracts these sort of people, it's the same reason teaching, scout leaders, social workers etc. attracts these people. Access to vulnerable kids.

Lostin Yorkshi_
25-03-2009, 12:46 PM
No, it was a church run state Grammar ie free

Not true. You had to pass the 11plus to get in, if you failed that you had to take an entrance exam and pay.

We lived in the country at Barton and fell outside the necessary town boundaries for the 11plus. So I never took the 11plus and had to take the entrance exam and my parents had to pay.

PS The boundaries for the 11plus changed over time.

shaky
25-03-2009, 02:54 PM
Kiddly diddliest priest


The greatest number of altar boys interfered with by a single Roman Catholic priest is 83,254 by Father Finbarr O'Plywood (ROI). In a 62-year career in the church, O'Plywood has been the incumbent of over 1,100 parishes and has been the subject of 2,360 internal church investigations without any charges being levelled. He was recently promoted to Archbishop.

http://www.viz.co.uk/images/sexistrecords/028.jpg

Father Finbarr O'Plywood, who has never been charged with any offence.

pne4eva2003
25-03-2009, 05:16 PM
Not true. You had to pass the 11plus to get in, if you failed that you had to take an entrance exam and pay.

We lived in the country at Barton and fell outside the necessary town boundaries for the 11plus. So I never took the 11plus and had to take the entrance exam and my parents had to pay.

PS The boundaries for the 11plus changed over time.

You've just jogged my memory Lostin Yorkshire...my brother just missed taking the 11plus as they stopped it the year before in our area (Penwortham)...he had to take the entrance exam and pass that, which he did, and then my parents had to pay.

White Womble
25-03-2009, 07:32 PM
Not true. You had to pass the 11plus to get in, if you failed that you had to take an entrance exam and pay.

We lived in the country at Barton and fell outside the necessary town boundaries for the 11plus. So I never took the 11plus and had to take the entrance exam and my parents had to pay.

PS The boundaries for the 11plus changed over time.

I was not aware at the time of anyone paying fees - but know nothing of your point wrt the 11 plus

Spavin
25-03-2009, 09:09 PM
I started in '73 and my parents paid a small proportion of the fees which were means tested. You had to pay if you lived in Preston or failed your 11 plus. I remember taking my entrance exam and passing. A friend of mine failed and had to go to Cuthbert Mayne - lucky bugger (no pun intended).

pne4eva2003
11-10-2011, 09:45 AM
Eddie Brown was one of my brother's favourite teachers...he went on to teach at All Hallows in Penwortham, becoming yet another favourite to a lot of pupils there too. He had something to do with PNE at one time didn't he?

My mum started work, having had three children, purely and simply to pay for my brother's Catholic College fees...her wages did nothing but pay for them! The 11 plus had finished by the time he was going and you had to pay if you wanted your child to go there. His head teacher, at the time, said he was too clever to go to just a normal comprehensive and she was right. Mum and dad struggled because most of his mates there were either doctor's, dentist's or other well established business men's sons and could well afford the fees.

If All Hallows hadn't have been built I would probably have gone to Winkley Square, another school where you had to pay fees. My mum and dad would have got them at half-price for me because of my brother already being at Catholic College. Once he left though, after his fifth year, the cost of my fees would have gone up to full price. Mum didn't want me having to travel to Ribbleton to go to school, bless her, as Cuthbert Mayne had stopped taking pupils in from across the river in South Ribble...hence why All Hallows was built for all us over this side :) I was one of the first pupils to go there, extended summer holiday that year as it wasn't completed on time, and the school was obviously not completely full until our year got to the fifth year. All Hallows poached Dunstan Melling from St. Cuthbert Mayne...very strict, but very very good Headmaster.

I'll have to ask my brother re the others named in your post....I know there was one evil one who loved to dish out the punishments...hit my brother's hands that hard once that his fingers had all swollen up before he got to the door...maybe repeating this. He struggled to open that door...but when asked by the teacher/priest did he need any help...he didn't.

P.S. I didn't resurrect this thread, someone else did but then their post got deleted...so it now looks like I resurrected this thread out of thin air :)

Blame Maurice
11-10-2011, 09:57 AM
Not true. You had to pass the 11plus to get in, if you failed that you had to take an entrance exam and pay.

We lived in the country at Barton and fell outside the necessary town boundaries for the 11plus. So I never took the 11plus and had to take the entrance exam and my parents had to pay.

PS The boundaries for the 11plus changed over time.

The rules also changed a lot back then. I could not take my 11+ in1967 as I lived in Preston but everyone else in my school Our Lady and St Edwards (Fulwood) could. I ended up at PCC for 6 th Form in 72 though and remenber most of the names mentioned esp Eddy Brown.

CJB
11-10-2011, 12:09 PM
Eddie Brown was one of my brother's favourite teachers...he went on to teach at All Hallows in Penwortham, becoming yet another favourite to a lot of pupils there too. He had something to do with PNE at one time didn't he?

If it's the same Eddie Brown he started his career at North End and went on to play for Birmingham City in the 1956 FA Cup Final when Bert Trautmann broke his neck. He was on the same ward as my dad a couple of years ago, think he's suffering from a form of dementia, seemed like a really nice bloke.

hawks26
11-10-2011, 12:39 PM
My old man went to the catholic college and he despised the place .

The way he tells it there was some seriously sadistic bastards working there.

No idea how he got in as he was from Kirkham .

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

Barton
11-10-2011, 05:00 PM
If it's the same Eddie Brown he started his career at North End and went on to play for Birmingham City in the 1956 FA Cup Final when Bert Trautmann broke his neck. He was on the same ward as my dad a couple of years ago, think he's suffering from a form of dementia, seemed like a really nice bloke.

Its the same person CJB

ottoman empire
12-10-2011, 01:59 PM
I was not aware at the time of anyone paying fees - but know nothing of your point wrt the 11 plus
You are correct White Womble.....If you passed the eleven plus; known then as scholarship you went to the College and girls went to either Winckley Square, or Lark Hill Convent. If you failed the 11+ you could take the entrance exam but your parents would have to pay for your education. I attended Cuthbert Mayne between 1964 and 1969 and it was a good school except the headmaster; a Mr Connolly was fanatical about the Catholic faith.

pne4eva2003
12-10-2011, 04:02 PM
You are correct White Womble.....If you passed the eleven plus; known then as scholarship you went to the College and girls went to either Winckley Square, or Lark Hill Convent. If you failed the 11+ you could take the entrance exam but your parents would have to pay for your education. I attended Cuthbert Mayne between 1964 and 1969 and it was a good school except the headmaster; a Mr Connolly was fanatical about the Catholic faith.

When they stopped the 11+ at St. Mary Magdelen's in Penwortham, which they did the year before my brother went to Catholic College, you had to apply to go to there and pass an entrance exam to get accepted. This he did and then mum had to pay the fees every term.

Harroman
06-01-2012, 09:28 PM
Quote "Mr Raggetts view of the disciplinarian nature of the school is complete fantasy.

The majority of teachers were not priests (I remember a total of 6 priests teaching) and discipline was only administered for misbehaviour not failure to perform. In our year I held the record for the reciept of corporal punishment, this was very rarely administered by the priests. Of the 96 ferulas (a leather strap beaten across the palm, containing no wood or whalebone, as I remember) I recieved only six were administered by a priest."Quote

Things must have changed! I started in 1961. I got 3 ferulas every week as did many others for getting less than 7 out of 10 on a weekly latin test. Only twice did I get ferulas for behaviour. All of them were administered by priests. I hated nearly every minute of my 7 years there - had an atrocious effect on my life.