Page 3 of 59 FirstFirst 123451353 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 583

Thread: Salisbury

  1. #21
    Substitute
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    under yellow bridge' savick
    Posts
    678
    Quote Originally Posted by northender0602 View Post
    Just a thought, what other regime has nerve agents, that the ruskies are pally with, could they have done this as a “favour”? Then there’s no proof the riskies have lost control of their chemical stockpile?
    It's all c.i.a ops trust me i know
    It's appropriate that the word 'ignorance' is an extension of the word 'ignore.' We ignore so much and so we become ignore-ant. Icke

  2. #22
    First Team
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    1,526
    Quote Originally Posted by raefil View Post
    A good starting point is lets look at politicians who thought it was a good idea to bomb the shit out of Iraq because they, totally false, had chemical weapons aimed at us.

    Yvette cooper and David Milliband both voted for BTW, on the labour side.
    I'm not going to even try to defend what is, in my eye, a war crime. Iraq was an unnecessary war that caused immeasurable suffering to all involved on the ground and a lasting effect on the stability of the region that is still being felt to this day.

    However, I would not compare the situation with Russia to Iraq. Our government has nothing to gain from it. We'll never go to war with a fellow nuclear power, and would thus have nothing to gain from it, unlike Iraq and their oil. The most likely response will be trade embargoes and sanctions. The former would likely hurt our economy too (albeit on a much smaller scale). The latter is unlikely to be realised due to several European countries (including Germany) still being partially reliant on Russian oil.

    Russia have a track record of similar attacks. The polonium-210 used is only produced in Russian designed nuclear plants, and particle accelerators. Only the former produces the kinds of quantities used in Alexander Litvinenko's assassination, they used it to send a message. The same is true for the particular nerve agent used. It is possible that it was manufactured in a UK lab to fabricate this attack, but as a chemist, I can inform you that it is far easier to make a compound from scratch (especially one as complex as this) than it is to reverse engineer it and make it for yourself (retrosynthesis of complex molecules is an absolute nightmare). If it was a UK made copycat, then it would quickly become clear that the Russians were not involved.

    I'm not saying that none of that is possible, and this is just another Iraq situation, but the simplest answer is that the Russians did it for the exact same reason they've done it umpteen times before. It takes an awful lot of assumptions to reach the point where one can say it was fabricated by the government.

    Russia is fast becoming a globally destabilising influence, and should be dealt with in the most effective way possible.

  3. #23
    First Team
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    1,526
    Quote Originally Posted by northender0602 View Post
    Just a thought, what other regime has nerve agents, that the ruskies are pally with, could they have done this as a “favour”? Then there’s no proof the riskies have lost control of their chemical stockpile?
    The Russian Federation is a shadow of the USSR. The Soviet Union at the height of its power could command the loyalty of most of eastern Europe. The Russian Federation has no such allies, and can perhaps rely on the likes of (what's left of) Syria, Kyrgyzstan, and a few small nations (this is based on the UN members that recognise Crimea as federal subjects of Russia), and none of them have the capacity to manufacture nerve agents of this calibre.

    Putin used this particular agent for the exact same reason he used Polonium 210 on Litvinenko: To send a message.

  4. #24
    Substitute
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Way out East
    Posts
    703
    Putin is just like a mafiosa crime boss, he'd have no compunction to wipe out an ex spy. It was done in a way that he could claim plausible deniability, but it definitely sends out a message to both current double agents and Putin critics in the West. The radioactive trail after Litvinenko's murder, literally led all the way to Moscow, which of course denied any responsibility. Of the two men responsible for this, one, Lugovoy was ex KGB and is now a Russian MP. There is an ever lengthening list of Putin critics who have died young or in suspicious circumstances. He's someone it's probably best not falling out with.
    To anyone who suggests it was a black propoganda, how would it encourage any future agents to work for the British if they thought they would end up dead?

  5. #25
    First Team
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    1,526
    Quote Originally Posted by PNEPPC View Post
    Putin is just like a mafiosa crime boss, he'd have no compunction to wipe out an ex spy. It was done in a way that he could claim plausible deniability, but it definitely sends out a message to both current double agents and Putin critics in the West. The radioactive trail after Litvinenko's murder, literally led all the way to Moscow, which of course denied any responsibility. Of the two men responsible for this, one, Lugovoy was ex KGB and is now a Russian MP. There is an ever lengthening list of Putin critics who have died young or in suspicious circumstances. He's someone it's probably best not falling out with.
    To anyone who suggests it was a black propoganda, how would it encourage any future agents to work for the British if they thought they would end up dead?
    Exactly this ^

  6. #26
    Substitute
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Way out East
    Posts
    703
    Quote Originally Posted by Mancunian White View Post
    Putin used this particular agent for the exact same reason he used Polonium 210 on Litvinenko: To send a message.
    Sorry, didn't see this post, and just said exactly the same.

  7. #27
    First Team
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Manchester
    Posts
    1,526
    Quote Originally Posted by PNEPPC View Post
    Sorry, didn't see this post, and just said exactly the same.
    Your answer was a lot more fleshed out. A very good addition to the thread mate.

  8. #28
    Manager Regardless's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    16,992
    Quote Originally Posted by PNEPPC View Post
    Sorry, didn't see this post, and just said exactly the same.
    As I did in post #6. It's a clear motive - one that makes for a good discussion point with respect to the OP.

  9. #29
    Substitute
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Way out East
    Posts
    703
    Quote Originally Posted by Regardless View Post
    As I did in post #6. It's a clear motive - one that makes for a good discussion point with respect to the OP.
    Sorry I didn't read every post, just skimmed them. But yes I agree with you totally.

  10. #30
    Director raefil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    64,007
    Quote Originally Posted by northender0602 View Post
    Just a thought, what other regime has nerve agents, that the ruskies are pally with, could they have done this as a “favour”? Then there’s no proof the riskies have lost control of their chemical stockpile?
    We do, Israel does, USA has too.
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Benn
    ‘I don’t like being called a Eurosceptic. I just disagree with the system. I wasn’t an Anglo-sceptic when Mrs Thatcher was in power. I just disagreed with her policies.’

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •