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Brexit never? Britain can still change its mind, says Article 50 autho

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  • Its only a short thread, Libs, but this is how it goes with the, "They."

    https://twitter.com/SeemaChandwani/s...58153785507840
    "The gig economy is nothing new, its simply the reincarnation of an ancient evil."

    Justin Welby

    Comment


    • Originally posted by PNEPPC View Post

      Gina Miller started the process through the courts, but Dominic Grieve probably has to take a lot of the credit.
      Who called for the meaningful vote?

      You know who did.

      Perhaps its fairer to ask which Party leader leader whipped its MPs to get the meaningful vote?
      Last edited by raefil; 11-01-2019, 11:44 AM.
      "The gig economy is nothing new, its simply the reincarnation of an ancient evil."

      Justin Welby

      Comment


      • Originally posted by raefil View Post

        Who called for the meaningful vote?

        You know who did.

        Perhaps its fairer to ask which Party leader leader whipped its MPs to get the meaningful vote?
        The Meaningful Vote, was not a Labour initiative, like most Brexit related issues, the party has unfortunately been ominously quiet. Though if the likes of Kier Starmer had been given more free rein, I think they would have been more vocal.
        As to which parties supported it, Labour, Lib Dems, Plaid, SNP, Greens and a handful of Tories.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by PNEPPC View Post

          The Meaningful Vote, was not a Labour initiative, like most Brexit related issues, the party has unfortunately been ominously quiet. Though if the likes of Kier Starmer had been given more free rein, I think they would have been more vocal.
          As to which parties supported it, Labour, Lib Dems, Plaid, SNP, Greens and a handful of Tories.
          As Ive said many times, this is not now nor ever has been Labours gig. To have been the party that pressed for the vote to be overturned would have been political suicide. Leave that to the Lib Dems who have absolutely nothing whatever to lose.
          "The gig economy is nothing new, its simply the reincarnation of an ancient evil."

          Justin Welby

          Comment


          • "The gig economy is nothing new, its simply the reincarnation of an ancient evil."

            Justin Welby

            Comment


            • Soft right supporters you can want all the Lib Dem fantasy unicorns you like. The reality is that Theresa May ran out the parliamentary clock on a Peoples Vote in October, the fact you are not aware of how parliament works is no excuse.

              The Time Table for a referendum is as follows:

              Theresa Mays Government has to start it and give it government legislation time, good luck with that.

              A members bill would never work, all it takes is one leave MP to shout "Object" and then the simple process of Filibuster and your members bill is dead. If you do not know this then you do not know what will work.

              So assuming Theresa May decided to have a Referendum and give government time to create a legally binding Referendum.

              Perhaps a month for the Electoral Commission to consult all parties and create a suitable question for the referendum.
              30 Days

              Then it goes through the standard legislative process Civil Service Green Paper, both houses a Parliament royal assent.
              147 days is how long that takes.

              There is a theoretical way this can be reduced to ~4 weeks but it can be stopped by just one Leave MP shouting Object. Good luck with that.

              Now add in the statutory 12 weeks for both sides to campaign on the question.
              84 days

              So we are looking at
              30 + 147 + 84.= 261

              We leave on March 29 so 80 days

              The latest we can push it back to is when we loose our MEPs is May 23 so 134 days

              When you talk about solutions deal in reality not fantasy.

              A General Election takes just 4.5 weeks.

              Yvette Cooper understands this and acted accordingly,

              Surprisingly many soft right MPs know all these facts.

              Since they know these facts, why were they encouraging you to believe in the Lib Dems fantasy unicorn of PV and blaming Jeremy Corbyn for not being able to ignore the Parliamentary reality?
              "The gig economy is nothing new, its simply the reincarnation of an ancient evil."

              Justin Welby

              Comment


              • Originally posted by raefil View Post
                Soft right supporters you can want all the Lib Dem fantasy unicorns you like. The reality is that Theresa May ran out the parliamentary clock on a Peoples Vote in October, the fact you are not aware of how parliament works is no excuse.

                The Time Table for a referendum is as follows:

                Theresa Mays Government has to start it and give it government legislation time, good luck with that.

                A members bill would never work, all it takes is one leave MP to shout "Object" and then the simple process of Filibuster and your members bill is dead. If you do not know this then you do not know what will work.

                So assuming Theresa May decided to have a Referendum and give government time to create a legally binding Referendum.

                Perhaps a month for the Electoral Commission to consult all parties and create a suitable question for the referendum.
                30 Days

                Then it goes through the standard legislative process Civil Service Green Paper, both houses a Parliament royal assent.
                147 days is how long that takes.

                There is a theoretical way this can be reduced to ~4 weeks but it can be stopped by just one Leave MP shouting Object. Good luck with that.

                Now add in the statutory 12 weeks for both sides to campaign on the question.
                84 days

                So we are looking at
                30 + 147 + 84.= 261

                We leave on March 29 so 80 days

                The latest we can push it back to is when we loose our MEPs is May 23 so 134 days

                When you talk about solutions deal in reality not fantasy.

                A General Election takes just 4.5 weeks.

                Yvette Cooper understands this and acted accordingly,

                Surprisingly many soft right MPs know all these facts.

                Since they know these facts, why were they encouraging you to believe in the Lib Dems fantasy unicorn of PV and blaming Jeremy Corbyn for not being able to ignore the Parliamentary reality?



                We have 4 ( and a bit ) options.......... Accept Mays laughable deal, have another " loaded " referendum, get the feck out on WTO or just stay in.............. The " bit " that's now gaining some traction is to extend by another couple of years and hope the issue goes away..........I'm getting really fed up with hearing about how we were lied to ( parliament speeches mainly from labour) and didn't understand what we were voting for and how new info makes the world of difference.........................

                I'm afraid until political gain is removed from this subject ( fat chance) then I aint budging on WTO.......


                Vote For John Brown

                Comment


                • Originally posted by raefil View Post
                  A passionate speech, but it doesn't really offer anything new to the debate.

                  The parts I take issue with are his assumption that to be an internationalist you must, therefore, support the EU. The problem with this is that it still assumes that the EU is a benevolent organisation that supports social democracy, a dose of socialism, and human/workers' rights. At present, it is doing few of these things and is, instead, shafting the poorest in society as brutally as the UK Tories. I count myself as an internationalist and oppose the EU because I feel solidarity with the poor and oppressed in countries suffering under its austerity - in exactly the same way that I oppose TTIP.

                  As always, he claims that the EU protects human/workers' rights and the environment. Lammy is welcome to come to Greece and see for himself how his beloved organisation has systematically stripped these away to benefit the powerful. The EU is a project about neoliberal deregulation - I live in that particular nightmare all day, every day.

                  Of course, the counterargument he makes leads to another point, that we can reform from within. Sadly, there is little sign of that and the only reforms seem to preserve the status of the wealthiest while screwing the many even more. That's before we address the technical issues with changing treaties, addressing the flaws in the Euro, and the fact that the UK has little say in its 'opt out' areas.

                  The thing is, Raef, while you voted remain, and I accept your reasons for doing so, even you are sceptical about the EU and accept that it has major problems that need fixing. If Lammy cannot see them, why should I believe that he intends to change anything?

                  I would like to see a world where Lammy's vision of the EU come to pass, but I am extremely sceptical that it will or even can happen.
                  Soup is Good Food

                  Life in Sparta, Greece

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by raefil View Post


                    Don't think putting that forward as reasoning to stay in the EU is going to carry much clout to be perfectly honest..... His argument in many ways is inside out and upside down... An impassoined view as to how we need to stay a part of the EU or all is lost ?................ I can only assume that he's got a job interview in Brussels coming up..
                    Last edited by Liberation; 11-01-2019, 05:08 PM.
                    Vote For John Brown

                    Comment


                    • Here we go:

                      "The gig economy is nothing new, its simply the reincarnation of an ancient evil."

                      Justin Welby

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by raefil View Post
                        Here we go:

                        see # 16627
                        Vote For John Brown

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by raefil View Post
                          Here we go:

                          If they put the exit date back I ( and hopefully about 17 million others) will withdraw from paying taxes until we do leave.

                          No taxation without representation.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by pnematic View Post

                            If they put the exit date back I ( and hopefully about 17 million others) will withdraw from paying taxes until we do leave.

                            No taxation without representation.
                            Only if 17.4m aren't PAYE taxpayers.....

                            Comment


                            • Get ready for the biggest demonstration this country as ever known.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by PNEESSEX View Post

                                Only if 17.4m aren't PAYE taxpayers.....
                                Good point - as they are all thick uneducated northerners like me , they be benefit scroungers .

                                Scrap that idea.

                                Comment

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