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  • #91
    Is this a thread on drug use or another derailed thread that should be moved under the playground heading ?

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    • #92
      I've always leaned towards legalisation of everything. But it's obviously a tough topic on which I can't claim expertise.

      My reasoning is the question.... Can you have a 'half-way house' where milder drugs are legalised and others not? I tend to think not, because that's really what we've got now (with alcohol etc) and we know that if you put down boundaries, people will always want to push over them. So a half-way house solution of legalising cannabis some other drugs would just be moving those boundaries. For certain, you would need strong laws against driving / working / looking after kids whilst under the influence.

      Obviously I see a big counterargument that if you have a state-endorsed box of cocaine put in front of you, as a teenager, you're much more likely to give it a try than if you're offered a bag of unidentified white stuff from a scruffy bloke behind the toilets, and risk a public conviction if you buy it.

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      • #93
        Originally posted by Regardless View Post
        I've always leaned towards legalisation of everything. But it's obviously a tough topic on which I can't claim expertise.

        My reasoning is the question.... Can you have a 'half-way house' where milder drugs are legalised and others not? I tend to think not, because that's really what we've got now (with alcohol etc) and we know that if you put down boundaries, people will always want to push over them. So a half-way house solution of legalising cannabis some other drugs would just be moving those boundaries. For certain, you would need strong laws against driving / working / looking after kids whilst under the influence.

        Obviously I see a big counterargument that if you have a state-endorsed box of cocaine put in front of you, as a teenager, you're much more likely to give it a try than if you're offered a bag of unidentified white stuff from a scruffy bloke behind the toilets, and risk a public conviction if you buy it.
        I think legalisation is a long way off, I think that decriminalising is slightly different, it enables proper regulation and control. This allows for users and victims to access care without criminalising victims. Portugal has decriminalised all drugs and it has vastly improved the situation including, associated criminal activity.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by Waltz View Post
          I think legalisation is a long way off, I think that decriminalising is slightly different, it enables proper regulation and control. This allows for users and victims to access care without criminalising victims. Portugal has decriminalised all drugs and it has vastly improved the situation including, associated criminal activity.

          What's your definition of the difference between legalisation and decriminalisation?

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          • #95
            Originally posted by Regardless View Post
            What's your definition of the difference between legalisation and decriminalisation?
            I'd say legalisation is where the state acknowledges and then has some degree of control and authority in the manufacturing and the distribution, taxation etc. whereas decrimanizing is more acceptance of the current situation and beginning to introduce controls and support and a network around that known situation but without the above involvement yet

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            • #96
              Originally posted by Regardless View Post
              What's your definition of the difference between legalisation and decriminalisation?
              Possession of smaller amounts of drugs does not involve the criminal justice system, it does not criminalise the user/victim/patient. It does not affect the supply part of the system and police can target suppliers of class a drugs. In Portugal all drugs have been decriminalised not legalised so, possession of a gramme of heroin will not involve criminal record but, may involve health service or, have driving licence confiscated. Possession of a kilo will land you in prison. If there are issues around safety of particular batch of say ecstasy, if it is decriminalised people can get their pill tested to find out what is in it. It is likely to be decriminalised before legalised but, anything has got to work better that the current situation.

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              • #97
                Originally posted by Waltz View Post
                Possession of smaller amounts of drugs does not involve the criminal justice system, it does not criminalise the user/victim/patient. It does not affect the supply part of the system and police can target suppliers of class a drugs. In Portugal all drugs have been decriminalised not legalised so, possession of a gramme of heroin will not involve criminal record but, may involve health service or, have driving licence confiscated. Possession of a kilo will land you in prison. If there are issues around safety of particular batch of say ecstasy, if it is decriminalised people can get their pill tested to find out what is in it. It is likely to be decriminalised before legalised but, anything has got to work better that the current situation.
                Youve made some very good points and food for thought here.
                "The gig economy is nothing new, its simply the reincarnation of an ancient evil."

                Justin Welby

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by raefil View Post
                  Youve made some very good points and food for thought here.
                  https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...orld-copied-it

                  Will give you some of the background and effects of Portugal's decriminalisation policy.

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Waltz View Post
                    https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...orld-copied-it

                    Will give you some of the background and effects of Portugal's decriminalisation policy.
                    Some analysis on this link too

                    https://www.tdpf.org.uk/blog/drug-de...ecord-straight

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                    • Portugal model looks interesting.

                      I really think more kids would try drugs if we did this... which is really stupid... but kids (and grown ups) do stupid things.


                      Is complete legalisation the next logical step?... ensuring that there never are any 'bad batches' - that the criminal gangs don't make the money. That lawful farmers in Afghanistan can (perhaps) cultivate crops rather than be beholden to mafia style gangs. Or is it better to leave the shadow of illegality over drugs on the British streets?

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                      • Originally posted by Regardless View Post
                        Portugal model looks interesting.

                        I really think more kids would try drugs if we did this... which is really stupid... but kids (and grown ups) do stupid things.


                        Is complete legalisation the next logical step?... ensuring that there never are any 'bad batches' - that the criminal gangs don't make the money. That lawful farmers in Afghanistan can (perhaps) cultivate crops rather than be beholden to mafia style gangs. Or is it better to leave the shadow of illegality over drugs on the British streets?
                        I'm not sure legalisation would be right although it would allow an element of control and of course taxation but decriminalization would have a massive impact and allow for better use of police resources and allow the MH services to deal with the problem correctly

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