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Inverted Wingers

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pnefcnumber1fan

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Oct 21, 2009
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It seems the modern way at the moment to have inverted wingers so I wondered if anyone else agrees with me in the idea that both Keith Treacy and Danny Mayor would be worth having a go on the other side, if you like? I think when you look at Keith's goals against Scunthorpe and Bradford they show that if he could cut inside from the right he would much be more of a goal scoring threat but he has a good enough right foot to keep the defenders guessing.

When Danny first came onto the scene last year, he started on the left wing and I feel that's were he's played best for North End. It would give us much more threat going forward and that's what we need.

Anyone else think its worth starting with Keith on the right and Danny on the left against Burnley, give them something different to think about?
 
Danny's last outing at Sheffield saw him on the left. He was double-teamed and shown left every time. Poor lad looked miserable.
 
I don't think Davidson helped Danny enough that day, the lad just needs a goal or some great skill and I think he'd be on his way.
 
I'm all for the wingers swapping sides from time to time however I'd hate to see Treacy stuck out on the right, or Mayor stuck on the left. When the players receive the ball, you want them to be able to run at their full back or get their head up looking for a cross immediately. Having to check back every time to put the ball on their favoured foot gives even the slowest full back a better opportunity to close the winger down and win back possession.

I'm all for giving the wingers the freedom to attack the defence, but at this level you need to be looking to take every advantage that you can and slowing down the play and making it predictable is something we should look to avoid.

In any case, we haven't been playing too badly around the penalty area when we have the ball. The movement of the strikers and the finishing of all our players (not just the strikers) are what need to be concentrated on as a priority.
 
PNEFC_2004 said:
I'm all for the wingers swapping sides from time to time however I'd hate to see Treacy stuck out on the right, or Mayor stuck on the left. When the players receive the ball, you want them to be able to run at their full back or get their head up looking for a cross immediately. Having to check back every time to put the ball on their favoured foot gives even the slowest full back a better opportunity to close the winger down and win back possession.

I'm all for giving the wingers the freedom to attack the defence, but at this level you need to be looking to take every advantage that you can and slowing down the play and making it predictable is something we should look to avoid.

In any case, we haven't been playing too badly around the penalty area when we have the ball. The movement of the strikers and the finishing of all our players (not just the strikers) are what need to be concentrated on as a priority.
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Usually I would agree with you but we need something to change and at the moment we're not winning games because we're not scoring goals. None of our strikers for me are natural goalscorers and this is the reason I would like Treacy to play right wing as I think he has the ability to still go down the right and use his right foot to great effect and we've seen what he can do when he cuts in on his left foot. I just feel if you look at how many shots Keith has had this season, what 5-10 that's nowhere near enough for me. Wallace scored goals for us last season and even though I'm a massive Keith Treacy fan I don't think unless we loan another right winger, that we need goals from midfield and we won't get them.
 
pnefcnumber1fan said:
Usually I would agree with you but we need something to change and at the moment we're not winning games because we're not scoring goals. None of our strikers for me are natural goalscorers and this is the reason I would like Treacy to play right wing as I think he has the ability to still go down the right and use his right foot to great effect and we've seen what he can do when he cuts in on his left foot. I just feel if you look at how many shots Keith has had this season, what 5-10 that's nowhere near enough for me. Wallace scored goals for us last season and even though I'm a massive Keith Treacy fan I don't think unless we loan another right winger, that we need goals from midfield and we won't get them.
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The problem has been scoring, not creating. We've created plenty. I'm all for the odd switch for 10 min or so but not all game. Mayor made sone nice runs against Sheffield Utd on the left but he has no left foot and they worked this out after about 23 seconds and just forced him to the touchline where he was entirely ineffective.
 
I pioneered inverted wingers on the babyfoot table at the Green Man in Inglewhite circa 1994. Unfortunately my wingers could not touch the ball when inverted, so I think it's a very silly idea!!
 
Albertan said:
Then he should work harder in practice sessions to improve his weaker foot.

Isn't that what he is paid for? To improve his game I mean.
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I presume though the poster was suggesting a tactic for the next game though, not next season!
 
Depends who you play upfront , if it's Parkin then you want your wingers getting crosses in. If it was just King you would want your wingers to cut inside and either shoot or look to play him in.
 
I'm not a huge fan of playing people out of position, which is essentially what a manager chooses to do if he inverts his wingers.

I've seen it work well when used as a brief 'in-game' switch to keep the opposition on their toes but in that sense it's not really that much different from plonking a massive central defender up front and you wouldn't choose to do that except in extraordinary circumstances. Inverting your wingers does open up the opportunity for them to come inside and shoot on their stronger foot but that's not reason enough to justify adopting the approach from the onset. What you gain in potential shooting opportunities you lose in shape and attacking fluidity. It also makes it harder for other players to find a genuine 'out' ball.

No, I think we should stick the pair of them on the side where they're most comfortable, except in tighter games when I would dispense with Mayor and play Russell as a holding midfielder in front of the back 4.
 
I agree that it can be used to great effect as an in-game tactic. We're probably not fluid enough, but we should be looking more at creating play and building, rather than as it seems sometimes - that we're just trying to win the ball and get the ball in the box.
Allowing a winger more freedom to switch, allowing one of the central defenders to roam forward, getting one of the midfielders to sit in while we're attacking - these are things that I don't really see as natural to Preston, yet other teams around the top of this league do this with aplomb.
Naturally, I think players should start in the positions that they are best suited. If the player is good enough though, they should have an extra role during the game to move off their position to either build opportunities or hold the game.
 
pav2u said:
Naturally, I think players should start in the positions that they are best suited. If the player is good enough though, they should have an extra role during the game to move off their position to either build opportunities or hold the game.
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I dont think thats the issue. The game is changing. Wingers in the more traditional sense are being phased out.

Take spain for instance, now I know theres a difference in quality, but their first choice line up was a 4-3-3 (4-2-3-1), but the "wingers" were both players who generally play centrally. Holland similar with Kuyt (who is actually a CF dont forget) but with Robben playing on the opposite wing to drive towards goal.

But that does rely on having a full back(s) who will provide width or occupy the opposition in wide areas. Jones can but isnt particularly dynamic, im not sure Davidson can anymore.
 
Take your point Jaymo. With our young players, in the game as it is, perhaps they should be more flexible / dynamic.

Our full backs are a problem in that set-up and have been for a few years. Whenever we've had width and pace on both wings (rarely) we've been exposed badly on the flanks at the back.

Many teams seem to set up with one main forward and wingers playing off in a kind of 4-5-1/4-3-3/4-2-3-1 formation to great effect, but I'm not sure we have the players.
 
jaymo said:
But that does rely on having a full back(s) who will provide width or occupy the opposition in wide areas. Jones can but isnt particularly dynamic, im not sure Davidson can anymore.
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This is exactly the point I was going to make. Jones and Davidson don't attack often enough or with enough quality to have out wingers cutting in. Alexander was ideal at this.
 
Tino said:
This is exactly the point I was going to make. Jones and Davidson don't attack often enough or with enough quality to have out wingers cutting in. Alexander was ideal at this.
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Davidson used to do this - but I thionk its just a case of his age, now. ( Plus his crossings are V. poor this season & some of last season. )
 
Inverted wingers?

We used to have one of those, Lee Cartwright seemed to spend most of his time arse over tit.
 
hawks26 said:
Depends who you play upfront , if it's Parkin then you want your wingers getting crosses in. If it was just King you would want your wingers to cut inside and either shoot or look to play him in.
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Parkin is not particularly effective when the ball is coming in from wide - he rarely outjumps a defender to get his head to the ball. Brown is actually better at that. But I would still prefer Parkin. For the match this week-end I would hope we find a way to start with Coutts, James and Russell - probably with Coutts tucked-in on the right - providing a platform from which Treacy can attack. With Hayes linking the midfield to Parkin that ought to give us quite a bit of strength.
 
For those who are against inverted wingers just a point of note that the two most outstanding wingers that represented PNE probably of all time both played for the most part on the 'wrong' side of the pitch.

Tom Finney (naturally left footed) played the bulk of his games as a right winger, and Peter Thompson (naturally right footed) played the bulk of his games as a left winger.

And those were two of the most dangerous wingers a defence could face............because they both learnt to be strong on either foot, hence could go past a defender on the outside and cross the ball, or cut inside and deliver a powerful and accurate shot on goal. Hence Finney's massive number of goals scored for a winger both at club and international level, and Thompson was no slouch also at putting the ball in the back of the net.

Say what you want, but all you are doing is making excuses for today's players who don't dedicate themselves to being two footed. As a defender, it is easy to shepherd a winger to his weaker foot if you know he has one, no defender could do that when facing Finney or Thompson, hence their success in playing the inverted winger role.
 
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