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Preston Underground (New Supporters Group)

Some of the criticism being aimed at the new group who as yet have only put out one statement is probably why we don't currently have a supporters group.

I have never known a fan base where people's noses get put out of joint so easily if a group of other fans try to do something positive.

The ISA did great things for our fanbase.

PSG helped to get Gentry Day off the ground.

Yet there are always those who constantly snipe at those involved, is it any wonder they are testing the water.

If you don't want them to represent you then done join them or back them.

Independent fans groups are needed and I bet the club have been delighted there hasn't been one for years. They have had a free reign, however this looks to me like they want to work with the club but also press them when needed.

I see no harm in an opening idea to work with the club on a fanzone, it's about fan engagement, creating a buzz around Deepdale. Let's be honest sometimes you wouldn't know there was a game on unless you arrive at 2.55. Then there can be a base to get ISA type stuff going, currently there is nowhere.

I have already noticed a couple of the very critical posters are those who constantly defend the owner to the hilt. Concidence?

This forum is as close to a supporters group the club has and that can't be right surely?

Let's just see what happens and give them a chance eh.
 
Dreyfuss said:
The choice of name and logo design both seem ill conceived and the statement itself could have been much better. Having an anonymous "one voice" to speak for us all is pretty strange imo.

That said, I think we do need an active group to represent our beleaguered fan-base. So, I'm happy something is brewing.

But I don't really understand why a fanzone is the number one aim at launch. After the last 18 months local hospitality venues need our support more than ever. Match-day revenue for some establishments is vital. Why try to eat away at their income?

Pre game and half time entertainment done on a low budget is never gonna be very entertaining. The club are simply not gonna blow big money on this stuff. The old adage "do you want a training ground or a 10m striker" will become "do you want a fanzone or a 500k league one striker punt".

The statement suggests the group's aim is to make us less reliant financially on Hemmings. A fanzone won't have any effect on that. Possibly the opposite once you take into account licencing, insurance, stewarding, policing etc.

I assume next up on the agenda will be to demand cheaper ticket prices, to increase attendances. Another idea which would risk costing hemmings more money. That debate will never die obviously, but I assume that is what the group will be pushing for ahead of 2022/23.

The onus on being "positive" that is littered throughout the statement also concerns me as it's important for any fans group to be able to challenge the club on its decisions. I would hope they'd be wiling to be negative too, if needs arise.

Cos if things do turn ugly and we face a real relegation battle in the next season or two, no one will care about flags, balloons, face painting and whether stone roses is being played as the teams walk out.

We will need to start challenging the club on whether we need new blood in control of the key decision making. This new group can't just become another soft ally for the club to use to peddle their ever growing "we need to be happy with mediocrity" position.

Good luck to you all anyway. With Ridsdale and Hemmings around you're gonna need some I think.

PS My main question for the group. Is "music after goals" ever gonna be on the agenda? Cos if that is part of the agenda I'll be actively campaigning against this group!! ;)
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Whilst I see where you are coming from, I disagree with about half your points. Firstly the 2 or 3 points based on the assumption that a fanzone is a cost. It possibly will be, but IMO it should be self-funding day-to-day and would hopefully be a positive cash boost through ticket sales - even though that is hard to quantify.

I also take no issue with the "positive" approach mentioned... I assume it is trying to convey that they aren't just going to be there to kick the club in the shins all the time, but to be reasonably constructive. I did find the bit about reducing costs to Trev a little iffy though,

I do agree the dodgy name, and the letter could have been much better worded. My first response was to be positive about a well-meaning letter, but I had seen a few flaws, and you and others have emphasised these more to the point where they aggravate me a bit more now!

The first ranty reply from Tuesday Night raises quite a lot of really good points - that should make people think, even though it was IMO over the top... at least until we know more about this group.
 
Improving engagement can only be a good thing. I am delighted people care enough to even start things like this. Credit for that. And there is definitely a space for fan involvement in all of this. That's kind of the point after all.

The first paragraph lost me I'm afraid. "For the attention of" "Disappointing season" "concerned" "worried". Wow, start on a high why don't we?

Honest question: If you received a letter like that, would you think - 'here's a bunch of people I can't wait to enagage with?'

What is this rush we're all in to sound like self-absorbed wingeing lawyers and accountants? Peter's a grand master at it. And now fans are at it too??!!

I don't disagree with the points. But there's nothing on the list there that isn't discussed in this democratic forum. And what will be gained by listing it like some petulant demands?

This is a question for fans and club:

Whatever happened to a chat over a brew between two groups talking like optimistic humans? Say: we are here to help each other with engagement challenges; because that is the problem that lies in front of us. Start with an open discussion. Agree a positive way forward with inspirational common goals. Then go for that. Work together - and keep us posted. See what happens. It can't be any worse than the vacuum that exists at the moment.

How about listening instead of preaching messages to each other? Sniff out the common ground. Build on that. Start with talking. See where it leads.

This letter makes us sound as disconnected and pompous as the club. It looks like the people who wrote it want to make a name for themselves as club influencers more than resolving the engagement challenge.

I'm happy this was not their aim. But, if I got this letter, that's how I would feel.
 
jumping mouse said:
Improving engagement can only be a good thing. I am delighted people care enough to even start things like this. Credit for that. And there is definitely a space for fan involvement in all of this. That's kind of the point after all.

The first paragraph lost me I'm afraid. "For the attention of" "Disappointing season" "concerned" "worried". Wow, start on a high why don't we?

Honest question: If you received a letter like that, would you think - 'here's a bunch of people I can't wait to enagage with?'

What is this rush we're all in to sound like self-absorbed wingeing lawyers and accountants? Peter's a grand master at it. And now fans are at it too??!!

I don't disagree with the points. But there's nothing on the list there that isn't discussed in this democratic forum. And what will be gained by listing it like some petulant demands?

This is a question for fans and club:

Whatever happened to a chat over a brew between two groups talking like optimistic humans? Say: we are here to help each other with engagement challenges; because that is the problem that lies in front of us. Start with an open discussion. Agree a positive way forward with inspirational common goals. Then go for that. Work together - and keep us posted. See what happens. It can't be any worse than the vacuum that exists at the moment.

How about listening instead of preaching messages to each other? Sniff out the common ground. Build on that. Start with talking. See where it leads.

This letter makes us sound as disconnected and pompous as the club. It looks like the people who wrote it want to make a name for themselves as club influencers more than resolving the engagement challenge.

I'm happy this was not their aim. But, if I got this letter, that's how I would feel.
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To be even handed: That is possibly my preachiest-ever post. (No, preachiest isn't a real word)
 
I can't decide how I feel about this but it will be interesting to see Ridsdale's response. Of course he doesn't have to respond but it will look pretty bad if he doesn't.

Just a couple of other points: the name is very ill-conceived. And who uses 'at your earliest convenience' any more? That was going out of use when I started work in the mid 60s. At least they didn't say 'we remain, sir, your obedient servants' - although PR would have probably quite liked that šŸ˜‰
 
The group gets my backing! The mere notion that there's a negative response towards PNE Underground, be it fans on here, or social media, aligns with us being a distinctly average football club, with fans who would rather be negative than positive - 60 years outside of the top flight confirms as much.

I am no longer passionate about Preston North End, due to a change in personal circumstances as I've got older, not helped by zero incentive to remain engaged as a fan from a very mediocre offering on the field, and an awful experience off it.

If that is to change, it's going to be thanks to a group like PNE Underground acting as a catalyst for improvement. Having been involved in PSG2000 for a brief time and attended many fans forums down the years, the disconnect between the club and supporters is when the fans lose sight of their role in the club - it is not to be scouts or tacticians, which is what has always happened in the past. Fans with an "I know best" attitude, which PNE Underground MUST have front and centre as they aim to work with the club.

When dealing with a megalomaniac like Peter Ridsdale, you have to work with him, not against him and telling him and his staff how to do their jobs would only end in the same way that past fans voices have. If PNE Undeground only views its role through a lens of "anything off the pitch or training ground," there's a real chance that the club could be receptive to a fans voice. I think the ISA is the best example of this with the momentum they brought to Deepdale in the early 90s, which ultimately acted as a catalyst to improvement, both off the pitch initially and eventually, on it, which I think was in large part thanks to the awareness and appeal they created.

Anything other than positivity towards this movement from fans is obstructing the single common goal of all PNE fans, one of progress - whatever progress may eventually look like. It could be a PNEIPA and Bowland pie, or a pitcher of Fosters whilst watching the 12:30 Premier League game in the old football museum, right through to an ultras section on the kop - whatever it takes, I'm behind, as should all fans as good things happen through solidarity. When we're galaxies apart from the Premier League and many teams in the Championship, from a financial and fanbase perspective, we have to look at where marginal gains can be obtained and right now, a small group of fans looking to cause disruption, is the best chance of anything positive happening beyond another mid-table finish and departing the cups at the earliest possible opportunity, with a half empty stadium and away fans account often accounting for 25% or more of attendance.

Best of luck, PNE Underground.
 
Northern Scum said:
The group gets my backing! The mere notion that there's a negative response towards PNE Underground, be it fans on here, or social media, aligns with us being a distinctly average football club, with fans who would rather be negative than positive - 60 years outside of the top flight confirms as much.

I am no longer passionate about Preston North End, due to a change in personal circumstances as I've got older, not helped by zero incentive to remain engaged as a fan from a very mediocre offering on the field, and an awful experience off it.

If that is to change, it's going to be thanks to a group like PNE Underground acting as a catalyst for improvement. Having been involved in PSG2000 for a brief time and attended many fans forums down the years, the disconnect between the club and supporters is when the fans lose sight of their role in the club - it is not to be scouts or tacticians, which is what has always happened in the past. Fans with an "I know best" attitude, which PNE Underground MUST have front and centre as they aim to work with the club.

When dealing with a megalomaniac like Peter Ridsdale, you have to work with him, not against him and telling him and his staff how to do their jobs would only end in the same way that past fans voices have. If PNE Undeground only views its role through a lens of "anything off the pitch or training ground," there's a real chance that the club could be receptive to a fans voice. I think the ISA is the best example of this with the momentum they brought to Deepdale in the early 90s, which ultimately acted as a catalyst to improvement, both off the pitch initially and eventually, on it, which I think was in large part thanks to the awareness and appeal they created.

Anything other than positivity towards this movement from fans is obstructing the single common goal of all PNE fans, one of progress - whatever progress may eventually look like. It could be a PNEIPA and Bowland pie, or a pitcher of Fosters whilst watching the 12:30 Premier League game in the old football museum, right through to an ultras section on the kop - whatever it takes, I'm behind, as should all fans as good things happen through solidarity. When we're galaxies apart from the Premier League and many teams in the Championship, from a financial and fanbase perspective, we have to look at where marginal gains can be obtained and right now, a small group of fans looking to cause disruption, is the best chance of anything positive happening beyond another mid-table finish and departing the cups at the earliest possible opportunity, with a half empty stadium and away fans account often accounting for 25% or more of attendance.

Best of luck, PNE Underground.
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Well clearly the passion is not dead - because you certainly seem to care a lot!

You absolutely make a great point that HOW you approach key people like Peter Ridsdale, is very important.

Honestly though, I think that, to a large extent, the people that you are seeing as ā€œnegativeā€ - are actually mainly appreciative of them getting off their backsides- but raising concerns that the group comes across as being very very preachy and telling PR how to do his job - in a ā€œwe know better than youā€ way. That would seem quite aligned to your own concerns about how not to run a group.

The more I read that letter, the more preachy it looks and the less I like it. But like others, I do think that the principles of the initiative is sound.
 
Regardless said:
Well clearly the passion is not dead - because you certainly seem to care a lot!

You absolutely make a great point that HOW you approach key people like Peter Ridsdale, is very important.

Honestly though, I think that, to a large extent, the people that you are seeing as ā€œnegativeā€ - are actually mainly appreciative of them getting off their backsides- but raising concerns that the group comes across as being very very preachy and telling PR how to do his job - in a ā€œwe know better than youā€ way. That would seem quite aligned to your own concerns about how not to run a group.

The more I read that letter, the more preachy it looks and the less I like it. But like others, I do think that the principles of the initiative is sound.
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Totally, I think there is very much a case of "I've seen this movie before and know how it ends" as far as I am concerned and another failed fans initiative is firmly in the range of outcomes, here. However, I would rather it fail through effort than the countless Whatsapp groups we are all probably part of, where we moan our heads off with mates without doing anything.

Underground has a chance to not get it right, that's a huge ask, but to make a ripple of change, I just hope they do.
 
Tuesday Nights said:
Stupid boy

And in your case, it seems a village need look no further for a new idiotšŸ¤£
Stick to threads about hooped vs plain socks which shouldnā€™t stretch you too much
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You've criticised, fairly, a group of supporters for getting off their arse and trying to engage with the club because they've done it in a manner that you disagree with.

You're then going on the attack at everybody who's, correctly, mentioning you're practically giving the clubs line as a response.

Is only your opinion allowed or are we ok to support people who, most likely, just want the best for their football club?
 
Somerset Exile said:
Itā€™s good to be open minded it could be a platform for supporters to express their concerns. Do you think this could signal a change in thinking at the club to put us on the right track? There are many points the group could put forward, letā€™s just hope it doesnā€™t hit the buffers before it leaves the station.šŸ˜‚
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Lots of good Train association there and im sure that there are others , but for the time being DIESEL do !!!!
 
Preston1880 said:
Like the idea, not a fan of the name and logo.

Minor tings though.
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My only criticism of the logo is that when i see it i obviously think of London............. Could the group not come up with a Northern logo ??

As you say, minor things...............
 
Maybe the group is getting a mixed reaction because their opening letter is rather Jekyll and Hyde?

Some of us will be drawn to the phrases that talk about wanting to be positive, constructive and wishing to work WITH the club. Some of are drawn to the phrases that are critical and that imply how Preston Underground will tell the club what to do, and how and when to do it.

Constructing a letter that covers the (presumably large number of) points that will have been discussed - trying to cover disparate views passionately held by different attendees- absolutely not an easy thing to do.
 
Regardless said:
Maybe the group is getting a mixed reaction because their opening letter is rather Jekyll and Hyde?

Some of us will be drawn to the phrases that talk about wanting to be positive, constructive and wishing to work WITH the club. Some of are drawn to the phrases that are critical and that imply how Preston Underground will tell the club what to do, and how and when to do it.

Constructing a letter that covers the (presumably large number of) points that will have been discussed - trying to cover disparate views passionately held by different attendees- absolutely not an easy thing to do.
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Agree. No. Not easy.

But the first contact (letter or otherwise) only needs to start the conversation by asking: 'How can fans help you to sort out engagement issues?'

The club cannot ignore that. If they do, they are even more out of touch than we fear.

Start the conversation, seek out common ground and trust - see where it leads. All the other details and disparate views can wait.
 
Tuesday Nights said:
If we want a fans group recognised by the club, itā€˜s creation needs to be worked on WITH the club and involve credible people.

Subject to their own thoughts, I would be supportive of such a group if it involved the likes of the FTF podcast people and John Roper who are thinkers, fans and above all CREDIBLE
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Thank you Tuesday Nights for your kind words.

Does that mean you will back this group if they ask me to join them?

Because I actually back this initiative 100%. The letter and the logo are of little consequence in my opinion.

The atmosphere and match day experience at Deepdale is stale at best and , as far as I see it, they are trying to do something about it.

They are not demanding Premiership football or Ā£200 season tickets, just an enhancement to the match day experience or as their slogan says "much more than just 90 minutes"

Power to them.
 
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