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Political Correctness

raefil said:
interesting that you got that from her words.
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It's clear as day what's she's doing. She sounds exactly like my auntie circa 2016-18

'I'd love to hear your point of view, but I suspect you're just being a racist'

Unbelievably weak. It just immediately discourages reasonable debate.

It's kind of how this section of the forum has become a barren wasteland devoid of Juicy debate. 18 months ago or so, I remember loads of people being accused of all sorts. Racism, sexism, bigotry and all the other istaphobes in between.

Now look at the place..... Absolutely dead. Everyone just fucked it off because they were sick of the lazy accusations.
 
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stf4ever said:
I agree. We've all got opinions that will offend, 'I don't like fat women' etc but we don't shout it from the rooftops looking to offend.

My concern is when willing conversation and organised debate are shut down because of offending opinions.
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I don’t mind a bit of weight on a lady - in the right places !!!
 
Preston1880 said:
It's clear as day what's she's doing. She sounds exactly like my auntie circa 2016-18

'I'd love to hear your point of view, but I suspect you're just being a racist'

Unbelievably weak. It just immediately discourages reasonable debate.

It's kind of how this section of the forum has become a barren wasteland devoid of Juicy debate. 18 months ago or so, I remember loads of people being accused of all sorts. Racism, sexism, bigotry and all the other istaphobes in between.

Now look at the place..... Absolutely dead. Everyone just fucked it off because they were sick of the lazy accusations.
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I seriously got nothing of that from what she said.

Give me a moment I'll go listen again.
 
raefil said:
I seriously got nothing of that from what she said.

Give me a moment I'll go listen again.
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OK I listened again and it seems to me she is saying stop hiding behind the term woke and say exactly what you mean. In this case it probably does mean the TV programme portraying a black Welsh Family. What on earth is wrong with that anyway?

Its used as a term towards gay marriage and many other things, its utter cowardice to hide behind a term like that, either say what you mean or STFU

Its why I despise terms like, "Gammon," etc. Like, "Woke," theyre divisive and are there to, as she says, do nothing but dog whistle.
 
stf4ever said:
Exactly, wholeheartedly agree with this.

I do think, however, that sometimes unsavoury conversations are a necessity. As long as those remain allowed then there's no issue for me.

For example, I'm more than happy to call anybody by whatever gender they wish to be named. However, I still think its important that men are kept out of female bathrooms.

My issue currently, is that plenty of people would happily tear my life to shreds if I publicly announced that during a civilised debate, and I don't think that that is right.
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I get what Graham is saying here, but debates like this only ever seem to focus on prominent people. Of course, it is very difficult to 'cancel' JK Rowling or another wealthy celebrity. But, what happens further down the chain - to people who don't have the means to fight back. Academics threatened and forced out of their jobs for their views, phoning employers to try and get people fired, trying to get business websites/social media pages closed down, or contacting advertisers. I am not a fan of these methods.

Happens on the other side of the spectrum - in the 1980s, the right wing knew they couldn't really touch Ozzy Osborne or Twisted Sister (although they tried) - instead, they went after small punk bands and independent record distributors/stores because they couldn't fight back. Tried to close them down or scare them into self-censoring - a tactic that is repeated today. Where is the line between accountability and trying to suppress views you do not agree with? If someone disagrees with you about transwomen in bathrooms, that is fair debate - if they start trying to close down your views, then that is going beyond accountability, IMO.

For me, the word 'woke' is overused - that does not mean that you do not have people trying to close down debate and sideline views they do not agree with. No different than, for example, groups trying to attack people for pro-Palestinian views or an anti-NATO stance. That is also cancel culture - as you said, it works both ways.
 
raefil said:
OK I listened again and it seems to me she is saying stop hiding behind the term woke and say exactly what you mean. In this case it probably does mean the TV programme portraying a black Welsh Family. What on earth is wrong with that anyway?

Its used as a term towards gay marriage and many other things, its utter cowardice to hide behind a term like that, either say what you mean or STFU

Its why I despise terms like, "Gammon," etc. Like, "Woke," theyre divisive and are there to, as she says, do nothing but dog whistle.
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I agree with that and know that you are fair-minded about this topic. Woke is way overused - however, people sometimes turn that around again and use it to discredit all criticism, even when justified. People who really are engaging in these practices hide behind it and claim that all criticism is just right wing attacks. Again, that does work both ways - the problem is that when a term is overused and diluted, whether woke, antisemitic, racist, homophobe, transphobe, or whatever, the minority of people who actually are those things can hide in plain sight.
 
stf4ever said:
By saying woke I mean overly sensitive in perceiving injustice/discrimination. Can we continue the conversation now?
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I only use it after I've had a kip.... My understanding of this version is of those who are overly offended on behalf of others that don't give a toss.... I'm probably wrong though. :)
 






These organisations - and many of the other people making such tweets - were critical of Starmer for actions taken against individuals accused of AS. Now, they want him to remove the whip from an MP because she expresses views they do not agree with. Hypocrisy?

IMO, if you want freedom of speech only for views that you agree with, then you are engaging in cancel culture of some form. Disagree, by all means, and debate - that is how we find solutions and compromises. Create a monolith where everybody has to think the same and you go absolutely nowhere.
 
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Sepp Blatter said:






These organisations - and many of the other people making such tweets - were critical of Starmer for actions taken against individuals accused of AS. Now, they want him to remove the whip from an MP because she expresses views they do not agree with. Hypocrisy?

IMO, if you want freedom of speech only for views that you agree with, then you are engaging in cancel culture of some form. Disagree, by all means, and debate - that is how we find solutions and compromises. Create a monolith where everybody has to think the same and you go absolutely nowhere.
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Eddie Izzard isn’t a woman. As long as he has male genitalia he can never be a woman. He’s a transvestite.
 
raefil said:
Thats exactly what Izzard has said.
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He identifies as genderfluid, I believe (whatever that means nowadays) - or as a trans-woman. That said, Eddie prefers she/her pronouns - the question is whether someone should be hammered/cancelled for refusing to use them (he has said he does not care, to be fair), or going down the bathrooms/women's spaces route.

One problem with this debate is that people on both sides often react to what they want someone to have said rather than what they actually said! People like JK Rowling or Eddie Izzard seem to act as a manifestation of all the arguments on one side or the other.
 
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