Black life in America

stf4ever

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I disagree strongly. The low standard of living of huge amount of black people and the lack social mobility refute this. Just because there are black millionaires (there is sonething of an established black elite who look down on poor blacks)which creates some kind of average doesn't mean that average exists. There are ones in the middle of the social order of course but way too many living in trauma in housing projects and other forms of segregate housing.

So people haven't come out of those projects to become black millionaires?

Name me one place in the world where black people have a higher rate of social mobility?

Name me one other place in the world that gives you a better chance, regardless of race, of succeeding granted you finish education, get a job and wait till marriage for kids.

You can't.
 

nigelscamelcoat

Advisor to the Owner

daddyman16

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In all fairness, most of the black billionaires are from America, Oprah Winfrey, Jay-Z, Kanye West, Michael Jordan, Robert F. Smith, Tyler Perry to name just some. Nigeria has a few billionaires too in the oil and sugar industry.
No Brits though, that can't be right, surely?
 

nigelscamelcoat

Advisor to the Owner
In all fairness, most of the black billionaires are from America, Oprah Winfrey, Jay-Z, Kanye West, Michael Jordan, Robert F. Smith, Tyler Perry to name just some. Nigeria has a few billionaires too in the oil and sugar industry.
No Brits though, that can't be right, surely?
Didn't know that. This billionaire thing though is it not just a story of a society that only does winners and losers. Doesn't soundo like much fun to me.
 

Snicky

Thorium Indium Potassium
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holding Hungary up as some bastion of freedoms and human rights is a new contender for the Worlds Tallest Dwarf competition. Congratulations
I wasn't Jake, and you know it.
The Hungarian players pointed to the Respect badges on their shirts, they didn't stoop to using a very divisive and unpopular gesture.

Do you honestly not see why an awful lot of people do not like taking the knee?
Do you honestly think that all those who boo are neanderthal racists?
How else can a football crowd show their unhappiness?
 

jakehake

Preachs PA
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I wasn't Jake, and you know it.
The Hungarian players pointed to the Respect badges on their shirts, they didn't stoop to using a very divisive and unpopular gesture.

Do you honestly not see why an awful lot of people do not like taking the knee?
Do you honestly think that all those who boo are neanderthal racists?
How else can a football crowd show their unhappiness?


Pointless questions but I'll note that Sky framed it that the crowd were only booing those taking a knee., whereas you suggest that the Hungarian team were also making a gesture in support. So how do you or Sky figure that out from the picture who or what was being booed? What if they were booing every single player taking a stance against racism because they didn't agree with it?

As per my earlier point, are all Hungarians racist? No. Does Hungary have serious issues with minorities and rights and numerous historic and recent incidences of poor behaviour and attitudes? Absolutely.

Interesting that your questions are loaded to always imply majorities, or in fact "all" yet you rally against lumping people into homogenous groups
 

Snicky

Thorium Indium Potassium
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Pointless questions but I'll note that Sky framed it that the crowd were only booing those taking a knee., whereas you suggest that the Hungarian team were also making a gesture in support. So how do you or Sky figure that out from the picture who or what was being booed? What if they were booing every single player taking a stance against racism because they didn't agree with it?

As per my earlier point, are all Hungarians racist? No. Does Hungary have serious issues with minorities and rights and numerous historic and recent incidences of poor behaviour and attitudes? Absolutely.

Interesting that your questions are loaded to always imply majorities, or in fact "all" yet you rally against lumping people into homogenous groups
Come on Jake, although possible, we both know deep down what they were booing, based on recent events.

Why are they pointless questions? I'd like to know your views. You seem to oppose booing the act of taking the knee? Why?
 

jakehake

Preachs PA
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Come on Jake, although possible, we both know deep down what they were booing, based on recent events.

Why are they pointless questions? I'd like to know your views. You seem to oppose booing the act of taking the knee? Why?
I’ve not opposed anything from what I can tell before you declared that was my stance?
 

jakehake

Preachs PA
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Distracted by work:

If you want to stand there and hand on heart say that every Hungarian fan who was booing was solely opposed to political movements being used before football matches you are free to believe that

If you want to believe that a bunch of football fans who "don't want politics having any place in football" won't be singing "10 German bombers" or national equivalent or hurling sectarian chants or abuse or jingoistic nationalist chants over the next few weeks(and I'm not just meaning home nations fans) then that's your choice too.

You can believe every boo is an opposition to the act rather than the movement. That's your prerogative.
 

Sepp Blatter

Liz Truss Groupie
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A nice article I stumbled across a few days ago, about racism in sport in Greece (and in general), and how some black players are slowly turning around attitudes.

Still a way to go, but things are changing:

 

Snicky

Thorium Indium Potassium
Patron
Distracted by work:

If you want to stand there and hand on heart say that every Hungarian fan who was booing was solely opposed to political movements being used before football matches you are free to believe that

If you want to believe that a bunch of football fans who "don't want politics having any place in football" won't be singing "10 German bombers" or national equivalent or hurling sectarian chants or abuse or jingoistic nationalist chants over the next few weeks(and I'm not just meaning home nations fans) then that's your choice too.

You can believe every boo is an opposition to the act rather than the movement. That's your prerogative.
Fair enough Jake, if I have misrepresented your views I apologise.

Do you remember anybody booing the Kick it Out Campaign? Was Deepdale or Wembley filled with boos when the players walked out with Kick it Out T-Shirts?

For clarity, do you understand why some people are booing taking the knee, and do you accept it is a divisive symbol closely linked with and has emerged in conjunction with, the rise of the BLM movement in the UK?
 
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jakehake

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Fair enough Jake, if I have misrepresented your views I apologise.

Do you remember anybody booing the Kick it Out Campaign? Was Deepdale or Wembley filled with boos when the players walked out with Kick it Out T-Shirts?

For clarity, do you understand why some people are booing taking the knee, and do you accept it is a divisive symbol closely linked with and has emerged in conjunction with, the rise of the BLM movement in the UK?

I understand why some people are saying that's why they are doing it. I'm more interested in why some quarters have taken on the mantle of creating even more division by having to claim "everything is related to one thing" or "everyone thinks the same thing" or "Hungarians oppose all forms of racism". If you want to pretend every single boo has some honourable intention then as I said, your prerogative. If some footballers choose to take a knee, or point to a badge or sing a song and dance under a flag in a show of support it's their choice. If they're forced against their will, that's wrong.
 

stf4ever

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I understand why some people are saying that's why they are doing it. I'm more interested in why some quarters have taken on the mantle of creating even more division by having to claim "everything is related to one thing" or "everyone thinks the same thing" or "Hungarians oppose all forms of racism". If you want to pretend every single boo has some honourable intention then as I said, your prerogative. If some footballers choose to take a knee, or point to a badge or sing a song and dance under a flag in a show of support it's their choice. If they're forced against their will, that's wrong.

That's fair enough.

But at the same time, the media contention that everybody booing is a racist is probably not helping the cause either.

If they can't fairly report that there might be another motive behind the booing other than racism, then those who are booing for political reasons are only going to become more defiant.
 

Snicky

Thorium Indium Potassium
Patron
I understand why some people are saying that's why they are doing it. I'm more interested in why some quarters have taken on the mantle of creating even more division by having to claim "everything is related to one thing" or "everyone thinks the same thing" or "Hungarians oppose all forms of racism". If you want to pretend every single boo has some honourable intention then as I said, your prerogative. If some footballers choose to take a knee, or point to a badge or sing a song and dance under a flag in a show of support it's their choice. If they're forced against their will, that's wrong.
If people were booing for other reasons than the "knee" then surely these bigots would be getting upset at other forms of anti-racist protest, such as kick it out.

From what I read and hear, the majority of people that do boo say they do for the same reason. Get rid of the knee, do it a different way without the stigma, and they will get everybody behind them.

No one has claimed anything about Hungarians other than they get it when it comes to the knee. If you don't think they are booing that, fair enough, your call. Nor is anyone pretending anything. You seem to be falling into the trap of others, looking for things and claiming things that have not been said or written.

And if you say that about the footballers being able to choose then surely so should the people that make them what they are. The supporters who pay good money that pays their wages. They have few options open to them, boo, or don't watch. I'm sure booing is the best option all around as it lets the feelings of the supporters known.

Pound to a penny the hypocritical fuckers will be quiet when it comes to being picked to play in next year's Qatar World Cup. In a country where modern slavery is rife, along with racism and the disgusting and dangerous conditions that migrant workers are forced to endure.
 
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