Black life in America

daddyman16

Manager
A nice article I stumbled across a few days ago, about racism in sport in Greece (and in general), and how some black players are slowly turning around attitudes.

Still a way to go, but things are changing:


I've never heard of the Antetokounmpo brothers, but then again I'm not into basketball. Good on them for the work they do and for opening up opportunities for others to follow their footsteps.
 

Sepp Blatter

Liz Truss Groupie
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I've never heard of the Antetokounmpo brothers, but then again I'm not into basketball. Good on them for the work they do and for opening up opportunities for others to follow their footsteps.
It's huge here - as big as football.

There was big Sofos, too - a very good player and also a top bloke:


You saw loads of Greek kids playing basketball with his name on their jersey. Still see some nastiness here, and institutional racism is a problem, but it is becoming much rarer.
 

Mer5eywhite

Forum Patron
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That's fair enough.

But at the same time, the media contention that everybody booing is a racist is probably not helping the cause either.

If they can't fairly report that there might be another motive behind the booing other than racism, then those who are booing for political reasons are only going to become more defiant.
Nail
Head
 

jakehake

Preachs PA
Staff member
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That's fair enough.

But at the same time, the media contention that everybody booing is a racist is probably not helping the cause either.

If they can't fairly report that there might be another motive behind the booing other than racism, then those who are booing for political reasons are only going to become more defiant.
But again like I pointed out, Snicky suggests the Hungarian team were pointing at badges which is a “political gesture” yet Sky report the fans are only booing the Irish, no one is booing the Hungarian team, but both teams are doing organised political gestures.

Is it the media or the opponents producing the circle?

Or both of them through their own myopia of their situation or the larger situation? Not sure how people can convincingly point and establish “their fault”
 

Ando60

Hat Trick Hero
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Nobody dares to challenge or even analyse the issue. Instead we get BBC sport headlines daily on the website. Today’s was
‘An ignorant minority who need educating’.

No balance, no critique, just knee-jerk, reactionary and shallow.
I’m sick of it... every other story on Sky Sports news has got a racism link.

It’s the same on the BBC and in the press.... we get the message, we understand the message, but can we please have some balance.
 

Funky Monk

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Nobody dares to challenge or even analyse the issue. Instead we get BBC sport headlines daily on the website. Today’s was
‘An ignorant minority who need educating’.

No balance, no critique, just knee-jerk, reactionary and shallow.
If people are choosing to ignore the message that the gesture is nowt to do with BLM the organisation, as has been repeated god knows how many times by FA, Premier League, Southgate, etc., and still choose to boo, knowing what it means to the players, you have to assume they have ignored said message? If they understand the message, why would they still boo?
 

Mer5eywhite

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If people are choosing to ignore the message that the gesture is nowt to do with BLM the organisation, as has been repeated god knows how many times by FA, Premier League, Southgate, etc., and still choose to boo, knowing what it means to the players, you have to assume they have ignored said message? If they understand the message, why would they still boo?

Because we are all racist white c@nts!

Past caring. World's disappearing up its own arse.
 

Snicky

Thorium Indium Potassium
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If people are choosing to ignore the message that the gesture is nowt to do with BLM the organisation, as has been repeated god knows how many times by FA, Premier League, Southgate, etc., and still choose to boo, knowing what it means to the players, you have to assume they have ignored said message? If they understand the message, why would they still boo?
But it is intrinsically linked. It emerged with the BLM riots of last year. Gangs of people forcing others to comply and kneel.

No matter what they say, they can’t get away from the obvious link.
 

Funky Monk

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But it is intrinsically linked. It emerged with the BLM riots of last year. Gangs of people forcing others to comply and kneel.

No matter what they say, they can’t get away from the obvious link.
I suppose this really is the salient point in all of this and unfortunately why things are very unlikely to change (regarding booing). It is a tough one because there now seems to be a bit of a standoff since the fans have come back into stadiums. In a way, I think the kneeling was about to run its course but the vociferous booing in stadiums may inadverntely mean that it carries on a bit longer yet. No one wants to be seen as being cowed by (perceived) racism. Personally, I wouldn't boo my team before a big match when they have expressly and repeatedly insisted that they are doing this for a good, non-political cause. But as you point out, the link to BLM (the organisation/political movement) will always be there and, dare I say, be used as a convenient excuse for some to vent their frustrations about their own insecurities about being labelled as racist.

I do think you've misunderstood the actual kneeling gesture (whether you support it, hate it or don't care about it). As I understand it, the act is not a symbol of submission (or from Game of Thrones or Chauvin kneeling on Floyd for that matter) but a symbol of peaceful, non-violent protest that contrasts with say, standing to attention for an anthem or whatever. But perhaps you already knew that.
 

Snicky

Thorium Indium Potassium
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I suppose this really is the salient point in all of this and unfortunately why things are very unlikely to change (regarding booing). It is a tough one because there now seems to be a bit of a standoff since the fans have come back into stadiums. In a way, I think the kneeling was about to run its course but the vociferous booing in stadiums may inadverntely mean that it carries on a bit longer yet. No one wants to be seen as being cowed by (perceived) racism. Personally, I wouldn't boo my team before a big match when they have expressly and repeatedly insisted that they are doing this for a good, non-political cause. But as you point out, the link to BLM (the organisation/political movement) will always be there and, dare I say, be used as a convenient excuse for some to vent their frustrations about their own insecurities about being labelled as racist.

I do think you've misunderstood the actual kneeling gesture (whether you support it, hate it or don't care about it). As I understand it, the act is not a symbol of submission (or from Game of Thrones or Chauvin kneeling on Floyd for that matter) but a symbol of peaceful, non-violent protest that contrasts with say, standing to attention for an anthem or whatever. But perhaps you already knew that.
“About their own insecurities about being labelled as racist”

These people have a valid reason to boo without being labelled racist by idiots.
It matters not the origins of the kneeling, the fact that it was linked last year to BLM, ( when they were running amok forcing people to kneel and destroying property) at the same time that the players had Black Lives Matter patches on their shirts, when the stadiums were adjourned with Black Lives Matter flags and banners and the TV screens showed Black Lives Matter messages.

It’s not a “convenient excuse”. That organisation is poison and has no place or relevance in this country.

I’ll ask again, where were these so called vocal booing racists when the kick it out campaign was in full swing?
 

jakehake

Preachs PA
Staff member
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“About their own insecurities about being labelled as racist”

These people have a valid reason to boo without being labelled racist by idiots.
It matters not the origins of the kneeling, the fact that it was linked last year to BLM, ( when they were running amok forcing people to kneel and destroying property) at the same time that the players had Black Lives Matter patches on their shirts, when the stadiums were adjourned with Black Lives Matter flags and banners and the TV screens showed Black Lives Matter messages.

It’s not a “convenient excuse”. That organisation is poison and has no place or relevance in this country.

I’ll ask again, where were these so called vocal booing racists when the kick it out campaign was in full swing?
Maybe some did oppose it but they were a minority and their voice wasn’t heard.

Maybe it’s become an indication of the media you consume that the tweets you get propelled by the algorithms are Hungarians “against racism” and anti-Semite ramblings from the middle of May in Manchester.

People get fed what the media(social and public) think they want to hear
 

jakehake

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Also for the contrarianism view in football. A lot of us are old enough to remember a time when an entire stand could be there on a Saturday waving inflatable bananas at your team, Yet throw a real banana on the pitch and the message is the complete opposite.

Two sides of every story/campaign can always be found.

As hard as it is to rationalise I can listen to my partners siblings talk quite candidly from their travels and journalism how the person we call a terrorist is the same person being called a freedom fighter. Two sides of the same coin even if it’s unpalatable but it makes you think at least
 

Snicky

Thorium Indium Potassium
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Maybe some did oppose it but they were a minority and their voice wasn’t heard.

Maybe it’s become an indication of the media you consume that the tweets you get propelled by the algorithms are Hungarians “against racism” and anti-Semite ramblings from the middle of May in Manchester.

People get fed what the media(social and public) think they want to hear
Maybe Jake, maybe.........😏 Its funny isn’t it that things you oppose are down to algorithms and the things you agree with are not.

You are all over the Black Lives Matter things but belittle anti Semitic abuse as “ramblings”

Again highlighting the hypocrisy of certain sections of society
 

jakehake

Preachs PA
Staff member
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Maybe Jake, maybe.........😏 Its funny isn’t it that things you oppose are down to algorithms and the things you agree with are not.

You are all over the Black Lives Matter things but belittle anti Semitic abuse as “ramblings”

Again highlighting the hypocrisy of certain sections of society
“Oppose” there you go again. Haven’t opposed anything just given an opinion that’s different to yours.

To be honest post what you want, anything Israel/Palestine can never be balanced with you and after the other week it’s something I’m not willing to engage with. The clip you posted just showed a really poor clip of someone rambling some ill thought out horrendous guff that no one seemed to actually take on board from the crowds reaction. Maybe if people had wildly clapped or even engaged with the lies they made it would be different to view. It just felt the normal titillation tweets that you seem to get. The bloke was a dick. Not many seemed to think his BBC lie was pertinent was all I got
 

Snicky

Thorium Indium Potassium
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“Oppose” there you go again. Haven’t opposed anything just given an opinion that’s different to yours.

To be honest post what you want, anything Israel/Palestine can never be balanced with you and after the other week it’s something I’m not willing to engage with. The clip you posted just showed a really poor clip of someone rambling some ill thought out horrendous guff that no one seemed to actually take on board from the crowds reaction. Maybe if people had wildly clapped or even engaged with the lies they made it would be different to view. It just felt the normal titillation tweets that you seem to get. The bloke was a dick. Not many seemed to think his BBC lie was pertinent was all I got
Fair enough. Absolute bullshit but we will leave it there.
 
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