Brexit never? Britain can still change its mind, says Article 50 autho

Sepp Blatter

Goat Molester
Patron
And I vote Labour because I believe my MP sincerely wants to look after his constituents and his constituency.

But because I want to see the country honour a plebiscite I didn't even take part in that makes me the devil incarnate - apparently.

Protect democracy. Too many here thinking that the enemy of their enemy is automatically their friend. Extremely naïve!
Yup - I dislike Tory governments, whether the ones in the UK or the ones wreaking havoc across the EU. The EU is proving to be no friend to those at the bottom.
 

raefil

Forum Patron
Patron
Ok.

Anyway, I’ll ask again. What has any of that got to do with the eu?
People believed liars who told them, through various media that the most anti racist politician in Britain hates Jews. Its constant on the newstands, its constant on the squarebox that im watching the arsenal game on now, drip drip drip, Jeremy corbyn is an antisemist.

Are working people thick for believing that?
 

Nobber

Forum Patron
Patron
People believed liars who told them, through various media that the most anti racist politician in Britain hates Jews. Its constant on the newstands, its constant on the squarebox that im watching the arsenal game on now, drip drip drip, Jeremy corbyn is an antisemist.

Are working people thick for believing that?
Sooooooo

Are you saying that those who voted leave at the bottom did so due to propaganda?
 

Strongbow

Manager
The working class did not vote for it. Some of the working class voted to leave. You voted with the tories Johnson. Fox, farage, Rees-mogg, I voted with the trade unions, the organised working class and the labour movement.
So the vast swathes of Northern/Midland traditional Labour voting heartlands didn't vote to leave constituency by constituency eh?

Think you need to check the Brexit Map out Waltzy
 

raefil

Forum Patron
Patron
Sooooooo

Are you saying that those at the bottom did so due to propaganda?
what Im saying is that as a people we believe and trust what we are told. If were told it often enough it must be true, especially if all you ever read are the tabloids etc. That does not make them thick, not at all, not one bit.

for years and years we were told by certain media that the EU is the problem when in truth the problem started with selfish and corrupt British politicians from Thatcher through blair and onwards. People were pushed further and further down by Britains pursuit of corporatism and if we want to point a finger at the EU then that is the area, also, IMHO, that theyve fallen into the trap of. Neo liberalism, if you like.

No the working class of this country arent thick but they kicked back the only way they could because up to 2015 there genuinely wasnt a different option in a General Election to vote for.

The media led the debate on the EU, the corporate billionaires like Murdoch/Dacre etc. Call it propoganda if you must but the so called journalists of the day serve their paymasters very well whilst those with integrity are pushed into the margins.

So no they arent thick but people are fed, by the media, what they want them to hear.

Take a look on here, as an example, weve a group of posters who actually do see through it all, some who dont but on the whole most do analse to the best of their abilities the issues that we discuss. They dont just leave it with what "Piers Morgan," for eg has said. They think for themselves.
 

Strongbow

Manager
People believed liars who told them, through various media that the most anti racist politician in Britain hates Jews. Its constant on the newstands, its constant on the squarebox that im watching the arsenal game on now, drip drip drip, Jeremy corbyn is an antisemist.

Are working people thick for believing that?
And you never us the media to form an opinion or push a point do you Philly ............ :whistle:
 

Nobber

Forum Patron
Patron
what Im saying is that as a people we believe and trust what we are told. If were told it often enough it must be true, especially if all you ever read are the tabloids etc. That does not make them thick, not at all, not one bit.

for years and years we were told by certain media that the EU is the problem when in truth the problem started with selfish and corrupt British politicians from Thatcher through blair and onwards. People were pushed further and further down by Britains pursuit of corporatism and if we want to point a finger at the EU then that is the area, also, IMHO, that theyve fallen into the trap of. Neo liberalism, if you like.

No the working class of this country arent thick but they kicked back the only way they could because up to 2015 there genuinely wasnt a different option in a General Election to vote for.

The media led the debate on the EU, the corporate billionaires like Murdoch/Dacre etc. Call it propoganda if you must but the so called journalists of the day serve their paymasters very well whilst those with integrity are pushed into the margins.

So no they arent thick but people are fed, by the media, what they want them to hear.

Take a look on here, as an example, weve a group of posters who actually do see through it all, some who dont but on the whole most do analse to the best of their abilities the issues that we discuss. They dont just leave it with what "Piers Morgan," for eg has said. They think for themselves.
The government spent millions of taxpayers money to send leaflets to every single household telling them to remain.

Sorry but there was propaganda bullshit on both sides. Actually from where I was sat I saw a load more remain lies, and continue to do so.

People voted for change, if they had very little why wouldn’t they?
 

raefil

Forum Patron
Patron
The government spent millions of taxpayers money to send leaflets to every single household telling them to remain.

Sorry but there was propaganda bullshit on both sides. Actually from where I was sat I saw a load more remain lies, and continue to do so.

People voted for change, if they had very little why wouldn’t they?
Yes there was, during the referendum but the drip drip of anti EU crap started well before a referendum was dreamt of.

The gradual drip started into full flow from around 1993.
 

Sepp Blatter

Goat Molester
Patron
Yes there was, during the referendum but the drip drip of anti EU crap started well before a referendum was dreamt of.

The gradual drip started into full flow from around 1993.
Definitely some truth in this - that said, over the past ten years, the media have not needed to produce much anti-EU crap. The EU has done that all by itself through its shortsighted, counterproductive actions - the UK media can't be blamed for everything in that respect!

IMO, Merkel will not be treated kindly by history - she lies at the heart of many of the problems.
 

Waltz

First Team
So the vast swathes of Northern/Midland traditional Labour voting heartlands didn't vote to leave constituency by constituency eh?

Think you need to check the Brexit Map out Waltzy
Not sure who you think the 16.5 million remain voters were. Most people who voted leave were tories, most people who voted remain were labour. The Labour Party, the trade unions and the cooperative movement all supported remain. You voted with the Tory party, farage, Fox, Davis, crispin Oder, Rupert murdoch, etc etc etc you can dress it up how you like.
 

Nobber

Forum Patron
Patron
Yes there was, during the referendum but the drip drip of anti EU crap started well before a referendum was dreamt of.

The gradual drip started into full flow from around 1993.
I don’t know how you can say that?

The nation was lied to when they were voting IN to the EU. That letter from Heath proves that. It has been decades of lies and underhand political decisions. This isn’t a recent thing. Again I maintain that there have always been a pro eu propaganda machine since it was first dreamt of!
 

raefil

Forum Patron
Patron
I don’t know how you can say that?

The nation was lied to when they were voting IN to the EU. That letter from Heath proves that. It has been decades of lies and underhand political decisions. This isn’t a recent thing. Again I maintain that there have always been a pro eu propaganda machine since it was first dreamt of!
this in itself isnt the whole truth either. Parliamentary debate centred almost entirely on the sovereignty issue. However this has been mainly forgotten.

Enoch Powell said:

“I do not think the fact that this involves a cession — and a growing cession — of Parliament's sovereignty can be disputed. Indeed, I notice that those who are the keenest proposers of British entry are the most ready to confess — not to confess, but to assert — that of course this involves by its very nature a reduction of the sovereignty of the House.”
David Owen replied for Labour:

“Of course that means that one gives up sovereignty, and a lot of the debate in this House has been focused upon sovereignty, and rightly so, because this is a central matter to many of the people who fundamentally do not wish us to go into Europe. They do not wish to give up any measure of sovereignty...

"It has now got through to a lot more MPs that sovereignty is a vital issue.”
so you can see even from this little snippet of the parliamentary debate that "Sovereignty," was discussed quite openly even back then.
 
People believed liars who told them, through various media that the most anti racist politician in Britain hates Jews. Its constant on the newstands, its constant on the squarebox that im watching the arsenal game on now, drip drip drip, Jeremy corbyn is an antisemist.

Are working people thick for believing that?
Definitely some truth in this - that said, over the past ten years, the media have not needed to produce much anti-EU crap. The EU has done that all by itself through its shortsighted, counterproductive actions - the UK media can't be blamed for everything in that respect!

IMO, Merkel will not be treated kindly by history - she lies at the heart of many of the problems.
I agree, Raef is right there is a lot of truth in that. It still does not alter the fact that the EU seems to have set about destroying itself. Hell, we haven't even got into the whole Ukrainian debacle.
 
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