Brexit never? Britain can still change its mind, says Article 50 autho

jakehake

Preachs PA
Staff member
Patron
20 odd thousand posts later we are still facing one inescapable fact...... The remainers and the corrupt barstewards who represent them ( and many of those that actually don't ) are changing laws and breaking with what little democracy we actually have, in order to overturn a legitimate referendum result......... The feckin lot of you should be ashamed of yourselves, although there's not much point trying to shame our leaders because they have none.............. I'm sure it will all turn out as a patting excercise by those who know better on the heads of us ignorant because of course they know best.......

Know your place !

That’s how “advice” works. It isn’t compulsory. Not sure why you ignore that fact. I’ve given you “advice” in the past on other issues, you’ve no obligation to follow it or act on it, but it was there to give you an opinion or a view, and there are opposing or other views to consider too. Not following advice isn’t an affront to the advisor,

The one thing it’s helped everyone learn is that almost the entire parliament is there to self serve but we’ve only ourselves to blame if we (you) allow Theresa and her cronies back in with a majority next time.
 

jakehake

Preachs PA
Staff member
Patron
Why do you think Labour voters behaved so differently by region?

I'll give you a clue if you like but I doubt you'll need one.

If it contains the keywords “stupid” and “uneducated” it could be bingo. Otherwise it’s kind of odd that so many people switched allegiance to the Tory and ERG ideology and sided with them after all these years of despising them. No wonder Farage (ex-Tory) knew who to target as his audience

But maybe they’ll be happy bedfellows in the new world.
 

Winkytinky

First Team
It amazes me that people who haven't had a decent word to say about Blair, Mandelson and Campbell in all the time I've been posting on here.. are quite happy to fall in with his horrible anti democratic games.
To point out the hypocricy of people leading the "let's have another vote" campaign then saying " it's not the right time" isn't falling in line with them it's just pointing out the hypocrisy 😏
 

Bristol White

First Team
Indeed - the austerity/bullying of weaker countries, the mishandling of the refugee crisis, and Juncker bleating on about 'More Europe' (anathema to many Brits) did not help at all. People are not stupid and can see exactly what has been going on. Without the extra leave votes from these, remain might have carried the day.

Ukraine could be the next thing to come back and bite them on the arse - they supported some very dodgy people there. Surprisingly, Verhofstadt, so vocal in his support for the pro-EU Ukrainians, has financial interests there according to some journalists. A self-serving little fuck! :D
By dodgy people what you actually mean is people who don't want to be ruled by Russia - maybe they don't want their natural resources sold off to ex KGB men to make them billionaires?

Maybe you could provide some meat on the bone. Which journalists and publications are running the stories about Verhofstadt?
 

Winkytinky

First Team
People fought for freedom.
People fought for the right to vote.
Yes they did and it wasn't just your grandparents either, a vote to extend the negotiation period isn't a slight on democracy it's the only sensible way of moving forward when Parliament (you know our democratic Parliament) are given another chance to find a workable fucking solution to leaving and moving forward without leaving the entire country on the bones of its arse (apart from the well to do's obviously they'll always be alright in any scenario)


If I hear "democracy has died" one more time I'm going to spew. Democracy does not rest on the outcome of a single vote, referendums are fucking stupid and our most recent one is stupider than most.

Just for the record I do not personally want another referendum with the same question as last time. I would vote in one that says here is the reality and what is achievable if we leave or this is what we will do to use our influence to try and get change if we stay.
 

Bristol White

First Team
It was said many times that "no deal was better than a bad deal.." the idea that Leave voters were not aware that "no deal" was a possible outcome is ridiculous.
As far as I can recall and certainly if google is anything to go by 'no deal was better than a bad deal' was not said once during the campaign, just after it by May in her twatty attempts at negotiating.

Never the less, what you are doing there is exactly the same as the thing brexiters get most cross about but in reverse. You would go ballistic if I said to you that Brexiters didn't know what they were voting for right? Yet here you are, confidently suggesting that all Brexit voters, 17.4m of them, knew that brexit meant no deal and were happy with that and you are basing that on something that doesn't seem to have been said in the campaign.

I would never try and talk for all leave voters but the fact is even if 95% think the way you claim they do, the ones who don't would be enough to change the result of the referendum. That is why the referendum was a bit of a joke and the only way to move forward to get a true idea of what the country thinks is to have a referendum on the final deal or no deal scenario versus remain.

Just one final thing and a genuine question as I am really interested to know your thoughts on this. Nigel Farage - the brexit king right? If someone is such a staunch brexiteer like Farage is, why would he spend the entire Brexit campaign advocating the Norway model, then once it seems we might get something like the Norway model, start slagging it off and claiming betrayal. At what point does his conduct become a worry to you?
 

sliper

Manager
I could just as easily argue back.. that a lot of folks were scared off voting Leave because they feared George Osborne's immediate recession if we voted out. Strange that Remainers don't mention that as one of their Brexit lies ? I also think there is a significant number who have moved from Remain to Leave because they now see that a referendum result is been overturned. (Merseywhite) I still think it is remarkable that Leave won at all with the death of Jo Cox.. had that not happened I believe the result would have been considerably wider.

I don't really care what Farage said.. just as I am sure you don't base your position on George Osbornes predictions. The only thing I give Farage credit for is fighting for and winning the referendum.

I would say that most Leavers voted to Leave the EU.. "end of" and they expected that to happen within a couple of years of the referendum. I think they believed that with the volumes of trade involved in both directions would ensure a good UK/EU trade deal. I don't think many anticipated the depth and duration of the "push back" against the result. In my case i see the whole protracted process as an example of why we should run a mile from the EU.. it is cumbersome.. it doesn't seem to care about trade and the welfare of its own citizens.

I would also say that in reaction to the Westminster shenanigans my opinion has hardened.. In the past I heard some decent arguments for EFTA and Norway Plus and have openly supported a Common Market but (now in view of the lack of good faith, obvious stalling and obstructing by Remainers MP'S) I just think that both will be used as a back door way of keeping us in. I would prefer an genuine FTA even now.. but increasingly it looks like "no deal" for me and I suspect many others.

If the EU pushes May into a long Article 50 extension.. I don't really mind.. because it pushes the whole sorry mess towards the next General Election. I believe short of "the declaration of war" in the next couple of years that this lot will get hammered at the next election.
Its going to make for a very interesting campaign.. "vote for me I blocked, stalled and delayed on implementing the referendum result!

Whatever shenanigans MP's get up to.. this is far from over.
 
Can't be arsed arguing the toss about Brexit today. It seems we can't debate anything much at all because some tool will always take their opinions too far and resort to violence.

Live life, enjoy the company of family and friends and remember violence is almost never the answer!
 

Sepp Blatter

Goat Molester
Patron
By dodgy people what you actually mean is people who don't want to be ruled by Russia - maybe they don't want their natural resources sold off to ex KGB men to make them billionaires?

Maybe you could provide some meat on the bone. Which journalists and publications are running the stories about Verhofstadt?
It was Greek journalists - I saw it reported on the Greek news alongside his shares in a company seeking to privatise water supplies in Thessaloniki. If I remember rightly (just did some research for English language reports), he was on the board of a company called Sofina - it is a major shareholder in GDF Suez (now Engie), which operates in the gas and electricity markets in Ukraine.

I think that the Press Project reported that he sat on the board of Sofina first before it hit the media:


These are Greek-orientated - basically, he harangued Tsipras about privatisations when his company sought to profit. With respect to Ukraine, Engie has operated there for a long time - another conflict of interest.


I don't have much time for Russia's actions in Ukraine, either - it has become yet another proxy conflict between powerful countries (no surprise that Ukraine has extensive gas supplies) . On the other side, the pro-Europe government was trying to make things difficult for the Russian-speaking Ukrainians - nobody has clean hands in this. Now, you have some very dodgy people/militias supporting the Ukrainian government (and some equally dodgy people/mercenaries on the other side).

Now, you have a situation where companies in the EU are plundering resources - timber from ancient forests is one I am aware of since the removal of tariffs on lumber, and the EU are pushing Ukraine to sell off land to larger agricultural interests. The other question is whether Ukrainian companies will be able to compete with EU imports without tariffs.

I am also, as I am sure you can understand, wary of loans given by the EU and IMF in return for privatising everything, making the labour marker more 'flexible,' and promoting austerity through cutting vital services. That is what has been happening in Ukraine - along with a brain drain. It's a plan I am, sadly, all too familiar with.

I understand your stout defence of the EU, but Verhofstadt is not the place to make a stand - he is a self-serving, hypocritical shitbag akin to some of the corrupt pondlife in the UK parliament! I don't trust the little fuck's intentions one bit :D
 

Waltz

First Team
It was Greek journalists - I saw it reported on the Greek news alongside his shares in a company seeking to privatise water supplies in Thessaloniki. If I remember rightly (just did some research for English language reports), he was on the board of a company called Sofina - it is a major shareholder in GDF Suez (now Engie), which operates in the gas and electricity markets in Ukraine.

I think that the Press Project reported that he sat on the board of Sofina first before it hit the media:


These are Greek-orientated - basically, he harangued Tsipras about privatisations when his company sought to profit. With respect to Ukraine, Engie has operated there for a long time - another conflict of interest.


I don't have much time for Russia's actions in Ukraine, either - it has become yet another proxy conflict between powerful countries (no surprise that Ukraine has extensive gas supplies) . On the other side, the pro-Europe government was trying to make things difficult for the Russian-speaking Ukrainians - nobody has clean hands in this. Now, you have some very dodgy people/militias supporting the Ukrainian government (and some equally dodgy people/mercenaries on the other side).

Now, you have a situation where companies in the EU are plundering resources - timber from ancient forests is one I am aware of since the removal of tariffs on lumber, and the EU are pushing Ukraine to sell off land to larger agricultural interests. The other question is whether Ukrainian companies will be able to compete with EU imports without tariffs.

I am also, as I am sure you can understand, wary of loans given by the EU and IMF in return for privatising everything, making the labour marker more 'flexible,' and promoting austerity through cutting vital services. That is what has been happening in Ukraine - along with a brain drain. It's a plan I am, sadly, all too familiar with.

I understand your stout defence of the EU, but Verhofstadt is not the place to make a stand - he is a self-serving, hypocritical shitbag akin to some of the corrupt pondlife in the UK parliament! I don't trust the little fuck's intentions one bit :D
Can’t see we’re it says he has shares, sits on boards of companies and earns tens of thousands. Unlike Jacob Rees-mogg, crispin Odey, Arron banks who made millions and in case of Odey hundreds of millions from tanking sterling.
Your pro-Russian/Putin stance is beyond laughable.
 

Sepp Blatter

Goat Molester
Patron
Can’t see we’re it says he has shares, sits on boards of companies and earns tens of thousands. Unlike Jacob Rees-mogg, crispin Odey, Arron banks who made millions and in case of Odey hundreds of millions from tanking sterling.
Your pro-Russian/Putin stance is beyond laughable.
:)
 

sliper

Manager
Can’t see we’re it says he has shares, sits on boards of companies and earns tens of thousands. Unlike Jacob Rees-mogg, crispin Odey, Arron banks who made millions and in case of Odey hundreds of millions from tanking sterling.
Your pro-Russian/Putin stance is beyond laughable.
Verhofstadt’s membership of the board of the multi-billion Belgian investment firm Sofina is not his only extra-parliamentary source of income. Further investigation reveals that the conservative MEP and aspiring President of the European Commission sits on the boards of several for-profit firms, receiving income from these posts that dwarfs his remuneration as an MEP.
;)
 
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