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Brexit never? Britain can still change its mind, says Article 50 autho

Regardless said:
Well I certainly didn't say that anyone had changed their mind.

Basically, the vision for Leave needed to be thought through maturely, before offering a simplistic IN/OUT ballot paper. The likes of Johnson and the ERG just said anything they could to get people to vote Leave. There were promises of having our cake and eating it... how we had all the cards... the EU will be begging to do a deal with us - the easiest deal in history... billions of pounds a month for the NHS.... etc etc. What a morning on 24th June 2016... Yippeee... Freedom.

Then over the coming years, their confidence waned - reality struck them as they tried to find a way to find a Brexit deal that was compatible with the GFA - and, cutting a very convoluted story short, despite dozens of attempts, they couldn't find a solution other than putting a trade border down the Irish Sea (despite categorically saying they wouldn't)... and lumping Northern Ireland in with the Republic. What a dog's breakfast.

Of course, as it dawned on them that "Leave" had made promises to the British people that could not be kept, they got increasingly desperate, and lashed out at the EU to try to absolve themselves of blame... but the people who constituted that referendum, and then enticed the public t vote Leave, they are the ones to blame.
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Blaming them for what Reg?.... Upholding a referendum result that no one seems to regret?
 
Liberation said:
Blaming them for what Reg?.... Upholding a referendum result that no one seems to regret?
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This line of argument has been specifically about Ireland - about the fact that, by 2018 onwards, people realised (or should have realised) that Brexit was almost certainly incompatible with the GFA.

Therefore, in order to continue supporting the “upholding of the referendum” - you were pricing in the consequences of that.

As I CLEARLY said, there would have been different negative consequences if the referendum had been re-run.
 
Regardless said:
This line of argument has been specifically about Ireland - about the fact that, by 2018 onwards, people realised (or should have realised) that Brexit was almost certainly incompatible with the GFA.

Therefore, in order to continue supporting the “upholding of the referendum” - you were pricing in the consequences of that.

As I CLEARLY said, there would have been different negative consequences if the referendum had been re-run.
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I asked you once before Reg ......... Are you saying that we could never leave the EU because of the GFA ?..... As I also CLEARLY stated.. Bugger that. :)
 
PNEESSEX said:
Covid + Brexit = Perfect storm.
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Brexit has no real effect on global GDP..
Or is this just the view from "the outside world doesn't matter little Englander perspective" ?
In fairness to you.. I know you didn't want Brexit but you don't still go on and on and on about it.
That seems fair enough to me.

We've discussed Brexit and its impact on NI on here for about 150 years...
 
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Liberation said:
I asked you once before Reg ......... Are you saying that we could never leave the EU because of the GFA ?..... As I also CLEARLY stated.. Bugger that. :)
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I answered that already. Try this.

When PNE decided they wanted Ali McCann to play for us, we genuinely could have put an irresistible contract under his nose, persuaded him it was all above board and maybe he’d sign it.

So now, without any consultation with St. Johnstone, with whom McCann would also be contracted, we have a signed binding agreement. According to you, we have an agreement with McCann so St Johnstone can knob off.

It doesn’t work in reality, does it? The right way to go about it is - BEFORE committing to a contract between PNE and McCann - we need to discuss and reach agreement with St.Johnstone and McCann to ensure their existing contract is dissolved appropriately.

Leaving the EU needed to involve pre-discussion between signatories to the GFA
 
Portishead said:
12 months on and youre still proving my point. You shouldnt think because you are an expert in nothing that everyone else on here is cut from the same cloth. Generally we are clueless as to what other posters do for a living.
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I hated two way ignore, but for some reason it was useful for you, Pete. Talk shite I'll point it out, looks like I'll be doing it a lot.
 
Regardless said:
I answered that already. Try this.

When PNE decided they wanted Ali McCann to play for us, we genuinely could have put an irresistible contract under his nose, persuaded him it was all above board and maybe he’d sign it.

So now, without any consultation with St. Johnstone, with whom McCann would also be contracted, we have a signed binding agreement. According to you, we have an agreement with McCann so St Johnstone can knob off.

It doesn’t work in reality, does it? The right way to go about it is - BEFORE committing to a contract between PNE and McCann - we need to discuss and reach agreement with St.Johnstone and McCann to ensure their existing contract is dissolved appropriately.

Leaving the EU needed to involve pre-discussion between signatories to the GFA
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Barnier made a point of highlighting the Irish question at every opportunity. They even suggested we would need to build a border.

So five years on and with both parties signing the agreement you've decided you know better than government lawyers and now want to scrap it and effectively give the Republic of Ireland a veto on Brexit ? And you really think that would end well ? You really think that is realistic ?

There were plenty of discussions on the Irish border and the EU came up with this current arrangement which both parties signed up to, presumably because after taking legal advice they believed the agreement complied with the GFA.

And you want us to take this seriously ? Give your head a wobble.
 
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sliper said:
Barnier made a point of highlighting the Irish question at every opportunity. They even suggested we would need to build a border.

So five years on and with both parties signing the agreement you've decided you know better than government lawyers and now want to scrap it and effectively give the Republic of Ireland a veto on Brexit ? And you really think that would end well ? You really think that is realistic ?

There were plenty of discussions on the Irish border and the EU came up with this current arrangement which both parties signed up to, presumably because after taking legal advice they believed the agreement complied with the GFA.

And you want us to take this seriously ? Give your head a wobble.
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I’ve “decided I know better than government lawyers”. That’s coming back to bite you next time you’re on one of your rants, arguing that you’re right and the experts are wrong :ROFLMAO:

Your need to talk down to me is apparently blinding you to reasoned debate. There are several things wrong with that post.

1/ Wow - Barnier/the EU raised the issue of NI rather a lot. Amazing. The Irish were left with a binding UK/Irish treaty in there hands - and looked at our triumphant government unilaterally declaring Brexit, knowing it was almost certainly incompatible with the treaty. Of course they mentioned it rather a lot.

2/ Your second para - I am not sure which agreement you refer to.

3/ This issue makes me pretty angry TBH. Your attitude here is just funny though. A bit like the first point - the rebel in you disappears when the “government-line” suits you!

Were there really “plenty of discussions” about the Irish border. I never noticed :ROFLMAO: - this was headline news for years, as the negotiators tried to find a solution to the impossible conflicting situation. Of course negotiators had to deal with it. They had two choices- revoke the referendum (not considered tenable) - or try and find new arrangements to mend what the amateurishly-framed referendum had broken.

Boris wanted to win a general election in 2019 and found a “solution” that was contrary to solemn promises made to the loyalist Northern Irish community - creating a border down the Irish Sea and very much aligning NI with the Republic.

IMO, this was an interesting outcome for Ireland, which until the GFA, had written in its constitution, a territorial claim over six counties. And IMO, on “our” side, breaking the promises he made to loyalists was a price Boris Johnson was prepared to do in order to save his own skin.

I don’t think you’re gullible enough to believe that the lawyers have done anything more than find some liberal interpretations of words in the GFA and try and make it fit. But perhaps some Brexiteers find it convenient not to scratch that particular surface.
 
^^^ Drip drip drip ^^

one-hundred percent, I believe that most Leave voters will shrug at this. It will barely register how these easy promises were made - easy deals, access to the single market, hundreds of millions a week to the NHS - all promises Remainers cried foul over at the time because they were so obviously lies - but which added enormously to the sense that the economic risks of leaving were reassuringly low.

It’s not possible to say how many voters were critically affected by this strategic misinformation.
 
Regardless said:
^^^ Drip drip drip ^^

one-hundred percent, I believe that most Leave voters will shrug at this. It will barely register how these easy promises were made - easy deals, access to the single market, hundreds of millions a week to the NHS - all promises Remainers cried foul over at the time because they were so obviously lies - but which added enormously to the sense that the economic risks of leaving were reassuringly low.

It’s not possible to say how many voters were critically affected by this strategic misinformation.
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The worst thing is that operation reality is starting to look a whole lot worse than operation fear.
 
Regardless said:
^^^ Drip drip drip ^^

one-hundred percent, I believe that most Leave voters will shrug at this. It will barely register how these easy promises were made - easy deals, access to the single market, hundreds of millions a week to the NHS - all promises Remainers cried foul over at the time because they were so obviously lies - but which added enormously to the sense that the economic risks of leaving were reassuringly low.

It’s not possible to say how many voters were critically affected by this strategic misinformation.
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Every cloud has a silver lining Reg.......... We might get far more capable politicians out of it long term... And not before time.
 
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