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Brexit never? Britain can still change its mind, says Article 50 autho

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raefil

raefil

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305692758_511594060971215_179971443089496558_n.jpg
 

Regardless

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Here’s a short clip.
I recommend it.

If it doesn’t make you think that we’re all being played off, one against the other; we’ll I’d be very surprised.
I’ve thought it for a long time. That’s why I hate the obsession with protected identity characteristics. It is divisive. Look for what we have in common, not what divides us…


Not seen the film. And as we were talking about fighting for the ending of suppression of the rights of homosexual people - and you introduced the term ‘identity politics’, and the film is called ‘Pride’, I was waiting for Bill Nighey’s character to announce he was gay or something!

I still completely think you’re barking up the wrong tree though.
 

Took My Heart

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Pride is a superb film and 'Lesbians and Gays Support the Miners' has entered into queer folklore. It's hard to watch without wanting to cry and to have your heart filled with how awesome solidarity is.

What I would suggest is if we want to move away from identity politics we have to at least listen to marginalised groups and hold the hand out rather than keep the foot on the neck.

I still think class is one of the most tacitly supported forms of discrimination and the biggest factor in how your life will turn out, BUT a lot of time when class is mentioned it is assumed that the working class are white men, and also that women, people of colour, non cis-het people are often assumed not to be part of the working class.

So, we can show solidarity together, but also have to acknowledge that working class women are impacting by sexism, working class people who aren't white are subject to racism too. So identities are important.

But I would say cheering the lack of white men in the top jobs in government as a victory means fuck all for working class women or people of colour.
 

Mer5eywhite

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Not seen the film. And as we were talking about fighting for the ending of suppression of the rights of homosexual people - and you introduced the term ‘identity politics’, and the film is called ‘Pride’, I was waiting for Bill Nighey’s character to announce he was gay or something!

I still completely think you’re barking up the wrong tree though.
He does later on
 

Mer5eywhite

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Pride is a superb film and 'Lesbians and Gays Support the Miners' has entered into queer folklore. It's hard to watch without wanting to cry and to have your heart filled with how awesome solidarity is.

What I would suggest is if we want to move away from identity politics we have to at least listen to marginalised groups and hold the hand out rather than keep the foot on the neck.

I still think class is one of the most tacitly supported forms of discrimination and the biggest factor in how your life will turn out, BUT a lot of time when class is mentioned it is assumed that the working class are white men, and also that women, people of colour, non cis-het people are often assumed not to be part of the working class.

So, we can show solidarity together, but also have to acknowledge that working class women are impacting by sexism, working class people who aren't white are subject to racism too. So identities are important.

But I would say cheering the lack of white men in the top jobs in government as a victory means fuck all for working class women or people of colour.

Agree with your last sentence in particular
 

Took My Heart

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Don't know if you have seen it, Mersey, but this is the original documentary:

As an aside, I was quite involved with anarchist groups in the 90s. There were a few middle class drop outs involved but it was remarkable how many people involved where the children from pit villages. What those families went through was never forgotten.

Thatcher radicalised a generation of lefties in my view. I consider the start of my own political education when I was 9 and asked, 'Dad, what's a scab?'
 

Sepp Blatter

Political Groupie
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As an aside, I was quite involved with anarchist groups in the 90s. There were a few middle class drop outs involved but it was remarkable how many people involved where the children from pit villages. What those families went through was never forgotten.

Thatcher radicalised a generation of lefties in my view. I consider the start of my own political education when I was 9 and asked, 'Dad, what's a scab?'
Same here, TMH - I was brought up in a single parent family under Thatcher and experienced the full weight of her spite. Found there were quite a few of us involved in the anarchist and animal rights groups.

It was the start of my political journey, too - never forgave that evil woman for what she put my mum through.
 

Took My Heart

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Same here, TMH - I was brought up in a single parent family under Thatcher and experienced the full weight of her spite. Found there were quite a few of us involved in the anarchist and animal rights groups.

It was the start of my political journey, too - never forgave that evil woman for what she put my mum through.

I don't blame you and I am sorry you had that precarity growing up. I suspect there are a few on here with similar stories even if now they are okay.

I remember getting bullied at primary school because my Dad got made redundant. I didn't realise it at the time but not long after there were massive redundancies at places like Bae and Leyland Motors then everyone's Dad was signing on. Looking back I think I was picked on because a lot of other kids were going through things similar.

Even now, I am no longer poor and earn enough to pay the bills and keep a roof over my families head but I always think the rug will be pulled and we'll be in a mess. Experiencing poverty never leaves you.
 

nigelscamelcoat

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I don't blame you and I am sorry you had that precarity growing up. I suspect there are a few on here with similar stories even if now they are okay.

I remember getting bullied at primary school because my Dad got made redundant. I didn't realise it at the time but not long after there were massive redundancies at places like Bae and Leyland Motors then everyone's Dad was signing on. Looking back I think I was picked on because a lot of other kids were going through things similar.

Even now, I am no longer poor and earn enough to pay the bills and keep a roof over my families head but I always think the rug will be pulled and we'll be in a mess. Experiencing poverty never leaves you.
I get the same. The notion that things could fall to pieces at any time.
 

nigelscamelcoat

Tofu eating wokerati
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As an aside, I was quite involved with anarchist groups in the 90s. There were a few middle class drop outs involved but it was remarkable how many people involved where the children from pit villages. What those families went through was never forgotten.

Thatcher radicalised a generation of lefties in my view. I consider the start of my own political education when I was 9 and asked, 'Dad, what's a scab?'
I think those of us who were children at that time were politicised. The miners also to an extent but weren't they already?
Thatcher went out to smash that solidarity because it threatened her power.
My wife's family are from East Yorkshire, close to Drax and Kellingley -true mining country.
When I hear them talk about the extent of the underground network of tunnels and shafts, connecting scores of villages and workers from all of those places. There wouldn't be any other situation in life where all of the people would meet together, work shoulder to shoulder, lose comrades and ultimatey form those types of bonds.
That kind of solidarity is so powerful, you can see why a power pissed, free marketeer like Thatcher would want to break that, break she did and then she hung them out to dry.
She will never be forgiven
 

noelpne

Advisor to the Owner
Thatcher was the worst.
She even argued with the Queen in relation to the Commonwealth.
FFS what a total bitch.
She hated the Working Class and I can argue that she's helped make China the Country it is today, because she ripped out this country's Manufacturing Base. Thank God her mentality went too far with that EVIL 'community charge' i.e. The Poll Tax. It took a war - luckily we won that war because everyone who lived there didn't want to become another Argentinian and maybe 'disappear' . But SHE actually gave another South American Dictator protection !!
And now we are a Country reliant on Service Industries and the City/Square Mile to turn-over the money. No wonder they don't know exactly how to protect her fucking statues. I'd blow 'em up tomorrow.
 
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outreacher

Respect Nature
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This sounds like progress.​

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/12/eu-reduce-northern-ireland-border-checks-brexit-uk

EU offers to reduce Northern Ireland border checks to ‘a couple of lorries a day​

The EU has initiated a fresh attempt to end the Northern Ireland Brexit dispute with the UK with a proposal to reduce checks on goods crossing the Irish Sea to a near “invisible manner” involving just “a couple of lorries” a day.

Maroš Šefčovič, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, said physical checks would be made only “when there is a reasonable suspicion of illegal trade smuggling, illegal drugs, dangerous toys or poisoned food”.

The move was described by the Irish prime minister, Micheál Martin, as evidence of “further solutions” and “flexibility” in Brussels.

“I spoke with the British PM late last week. It was a preliminary discussion. We will meet again on these issues, “ he said.
 

Sepp Blatter

Political Groupie
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With Truss actually being a remainer perhaps we will get more common sense decisions on the way forward.
Sefcovic seems to be a lot more pragmatic than his predecessors, too, so perhaps both sides will be more flexible. From what I have seen, I prefer Michael Martin to Leo Varadkar - he seems much better at trying to bridge divides.
 
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