Child abuse in youth football

jakehake

Preachs PA
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Not really sure if General Football or news was better for this as it's pretty harrowing stuff, never had heard this story before. Back in the day you remember Crewe as being that club that was always lauded for it's youth policies and yet something like this was happening at the same time. Took a lot of guts to speak about it now but he makes a frightening point about just how many others in or out of the game now that could have been affected by it all

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/nov/16/andy-woodward
 

Roger Mellie

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Not really sure if General Football or news was better for this as it's pretty harrowing stuff, never had heard this story before. Back in the day you remember Crewe as being that club that was always lauded for it's youth policies and yet something like this was happening at the same time. Took a lot of guts to speak about it now but he makes a frightening point about just how many others in or out of the game now that could have been affected by it all

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/nov/16/andy-woodward
I can remember a story about the head of the youth set up at celtic in the 70's and 80's being prosecuted for sexually abusing youth team players. One of them was Alan Brazil whos on talksport.
 

JFK-1

Manager
It's not just about sexual abuse though. Take a look at this for example, should this 13 year old boy be playing under 20's? Check the size of him in comparison to those around him and keep in mind that there can be players over 20 in these games too. Does anyone think the chances of him being seriously hurt make it child abuse?

In this image we see him replacing a 16 year old for the last 9 minutes of the match.


This image shows him on the pitch in that game.


As far as i'm concerned it's too much. He could be seriously hurt for what probably amounts to a publicity stunt. The boy is a helluva player but he's not physically ready for that level.
 
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raefil

Shit Fan
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It's not just about sexual abuse though. Take a look at this for example, should this 13 year old boy be playing under 20's? Check the size of him in comparison to those around him and keep in mind that there can be players over 20 in these games too. Does anyone think the chances of him being seriously hurt make it child abuse?

In this image we see him replacing a 16 year old for the last 9 minutes of the match.


This image shows him on the pitch in that game.


As far as i'm concerned it's too much. He could be seriously hurt for what probably amounts to a publicity stunt. The boy is a helluva player but he's not physically ready for that level.
should not be paying at that level until 16th Birthday at the earliest. Crazy decision.
 

raefil

Shit Fan
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Imagine that boy colliding with the 6 foot 5 inch Goliath Matt Crooks who has played in a handful of under 20's games for Rangers. This is the article the images come from.

and beyond that, he is a child, hes still developing and should at this stage of his development be playing in a "Non competitive," development environment. by non competitive I mean at academy level where development of playing skills is put above results of a game. this is neither good for the kid nor the club.
 

Mer5eywhite

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Lad I used to play football with around 20 years ago went from Man City to Crewe Alexandra as a young player in the early to mid 80s. He left Crewe because of this sort of thing and mentioned another name. I've not read the whole article but I think you'll find this isn't the end of the story. I won't use the name on here because it is only hearsay.
 
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Guinness

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I can remember a story about the head of the youth set up at celtic in the 70's and 80's being prosecuted for sexually abusing youth team players. One of them was Alan Brazil whos on talksport.
Don't Rangers fans have a chant of 'big jock knew' about the Celtic manager of the time Jock Stein knowing about the abuse... Whether he actually did know however I have my doubts.
 
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Preston1880

Forum Patron
Patron
It's not just about sexual abuse though. Take a look at this for example, should this 13 year old boy be playing under 20's? Check the size of him in comparison to those around him and keep in mind that there can be players over 20 in these games too. Does anyone think the chances of him being seriously hurt make it child abuse?

In this image we see him replacing a 16 year old for the last 9 minutes of the match.


This image shows him on the pitch in that game.


As far as i'm concerned it's too much. He could be seriously hurt for what probably amounts to a publicity stunt. The boy is a helluva player but he's not physically ready for that level.
If you're good enough, you're old enough. By all accounts this lad hasn't struggled at all with the 'step up' quality and physicality.

There are hundreds of skinny under developed 17/18yr olds right across Europe making their professional debuts every year, coming up against big bruising 30yr old defenders. I don't think this is much different.

Child abuse? Don't be daft.
 
V

villager

Guest
No no and no, the kid is 13 you don't put him in a game playing against teenagers that are bigger and stronger and have upto 5 years on him. It's abhorrent.
What a change I actually agree with you.
 

Preston1880

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No no and no, the kid is 13 you don't put him in a game playing against teenagers that are bigger and stronger and have upto 5 years on him. It's abhorrent.
So what about the physical disparity between 17/18yr olds and the opposition players that they come up against when thrust into the first team squads at some of the top clubs across the globe? These teenagers are facing opposition players with upto 15yrs development on them.

When I used to play rugby at school when I was about 12 or 13 and 6 stone wet through, we regularly played against private school teams such as King Edwards in Lytham, who would field a team full of 18yr olds.

Although slightly daunting at first, we loved it an no one was ever injured.

I honestly don't think there's a problem with this, and it seems neither do the top coaches and staff at the very top clubs.
 

Preston1880

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An example close to home.......Ben Davies, going out on loan to York at the age of 17, making 44 appearances against many fully developed men despite looking like a strong gust of wind would snap him in half.

The potential for injury in that scenario is far greater than a 13yr old playing with 17/18yr olds, I'd say.

Growing up playing football on the streets and parks, we'd play intense games made up of teams of all ages. 10/11yr olds tussling and flying into tackles with 18yr olds.....again, never any injuries.

I think people are just taken aback by his size and age but, I'm sure if he was struggling or in any real danger, he wouldn't be put in this situation.
 

JFK-1

Manager
Don't Rangers fans have a chant of 'big jock knew' about the Celtic manager of the time Jock Stein knowing about the abuse... Whether he actually did know however I have my doubts.
Yes there have been allegations that 'big Jock knew' which I too have doubts about. If he found out I don't think he would have let it continue. He may have known but this abuse took place between 1968 and 1974 and stopped in 74 or at least stopped at Celtic when the offender left the club and wasn't brought to justice till 2007.

My view is that even if he did eventually know he wouldn't have tolerated this but it was a different era when things like that were more likely to be hidden away than reported to the police,ala Jimmy Saville.

In his evidence Torbett (the offender) said he had started the club in 1966 with the good wishes of Celtic chairman Sir Robert Kelly.

He denied being ''booted out'' by Mr Stein in 1974 and said he resigned because of a ''conflict of interests''

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/this-evil-pervert-wrecked-my-dream-of-playing-935688
 

JFK-1

Manager
Children's commissioner warning on football 'child exploitation'

Children's commissioner warning on football 'child exploitation'

Scotland's children's commissioner has called for regulation to stop the exploitation of children by professional football clubs.

Tam Baillie said a "wait and see" approach was no longer appropriate.

His comments follow the decision by Celtic to feature 13-year-old Karamoko Dembele in its under-20 side against Hearts on Monday.

The Scottish FA and Scottish Professional Football League said they were "surprised" by the allegations.
Bookmaker Ladbrokes has since apologised for taking bets on the child's future prospects.

Dembele, who was born in London in 2003 and whose parents come from Ivory Coast, joined Celtic in July 2013.
Since then he has been fast-tracked to appear with players seven years his senior.

More: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-37571868
 

Winkytinky

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So what about the physical disparity between 17/18yr olds and the opposition players that they come up against when thrust into the first team squads at some of the top clubs across the globe? These teenagers are facing opposition players with upto 15yrs development on them.

When I used to play rugby at school when I was about 12 or 13 and 6 stone wet through, we regularly played against private school teams such as King Edwards in Lytham, who would field a team full of 18yr olds.

Although slightly daunting at first, we loved it an no one was ever injured.

I honestly don't think there's a problem with this, and it seems neither do the top coaches and staff at the very top clubs.
My younger Sister and Brother went to King Edwards/Queen Mary's and my brother player rugby at county level, he was never thrown in there at a level he wasn't ready for just to beat the opposition.
 

MattPNE17

Youth Team
If you're good enough you're old enough is only appropriate for a game where technically you don't directly play anyone, like darts or snooker - Michael van Gerwen had thrown a 9 darter on TV and won the World Masters by the time he was 17. Ronnie O'Sullivan said himself he was ready to be a professional snooker player by the age of 14 and he won one of the 3 major trophies at the age of 17.

Generally in games like that success is dependent purely on you and your ability - football is not like that, there's too many other factors than ability. Despite having seen the Dembele highlights and being able to see what all the fuss is about, his body is simply not ready to be a footballer at U20 level because all it takes is one careless crunching tackle from a player like a Matt Crooks and his entire career could be over before it even starts.

Men against boys wouldn't be a saying if this weren't true.
 

JFK-1

Manager
If you're good enough you're old enough is only appropriate for a game where technically you don't directly play anyone, like darts or snooker - Michael van Gerwen had thrown a 9 darter on TV and won the World Masters by the time he was 17. Ronnie O'Sullivan said himself he was ready to be a professional snooker player by the age of 14 and he won one of the 3 major trophies at the age of 17.

Generally in games like that success is dependent purely on you and your ability - football is not like that, there's too many other factors than ability. Despite having seen the Dembele highlights and being able to see what all the fuss is about, his body is simply not ready to be a footballer at U20 level because all it takes is one careless crunching tackle from a player like a Matt Crooks and his entire career could be over before it even starts.

Men against boys wouldn't be a saying if this weren't true.
Totally agree, a collision between him and Crooks for a 50/50 ball doesn't even bear thinking about. And there are plenty 6 foot plus boys in those matches who will be twice the weight of this kid who looks barely 5 foot and 7 stone if he is that.
 

pne99

First Team
Don't Rangers fans have a chant of 'big jock knew' about the Celtic manager of the time Jock Stein knowing about the abuse... Whether he actually did know however I have my doubts.
Absolutely no truth in it whatsoever, the abuse didn't even take place within Celtic, it was in the Celtic Boys Club, which had and still does have links to the club itself, but isn't an official part of the club's youth system.
 
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