Coronavirus science and statistics(no politics)

sliper

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I‘ve read the whole thing and there are elements, quite a few, that I agree with. However, the cause isn't helped by accusing the government, the media etc of being part of a big conspiracy. Incompetent maybe, sorry definitely, but it’s not a conspiracy.

What we think doesn't really make much difference..
If a guy like this is convinced.. we know he will be discussing this with lots of highly influential people.. this indicates the push back is getting very serious.
 

Snicky

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What we think doesn't really make much difference..
If a guy like this is convinced.. we know he will be discussing this with lots of highly influential people.. this indicates the push back is getting very serious.
To me this is what makes this report different. He is very well qualified, experienced and respected.
Why would he risk all that producing this level of details and surety?
 

Strongbow

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Spanish Flu , short timeline :

A pandemic swept through the US and Europe in 1918 killing, by some estimates, more than 50 million people.

It began between January and February in the United States when a flurry of people died after presenting symptoms of headaches, respiratory difficulties, cough and high fever.

A few months later, patients in France, Belgium and Germany had similar clinical symptoms and in May, a religious festival in Spain caused an outbreak of the same mysterious disease.

One of history's most devastating pandemics, the so-called Spanish Flu is seen as an important benchmark by historians who aim to learn lessons from past outbreaks in the face of the current coronavirus pandemic.

The lockdown measures put in place over a century ago sound familiar today: theatres, schools and borders were all closed.

Public spaces, including telephones, were disinfected, historians say and in the United States, people could be fined up to $100 for not wearing a mask.

In 1918, it was quickly understood that crowds could cause further transmission.

"Lockdowns were put in place and progress was made in the application of preventive measures that had historically proven effective,"

This included hygiene measures and quarantining those suspected of being contaminated.

Without hope of a vaccine or test, those fighting the 1918 pandemic faced different challenges and some expected summer temperatures to slow the virus' transmission.

The second wave of the epidemic, however, was more deadly than the first. In Spain it coincided with harvests and celebrations in September as well as the relaxation of lockdown measures ,Outbreaks occurred the following winter, in some areas there was a third wave in the early 1920s.

"The end of the pandemic depended on each country: on the information and training of its specialists and the interests of its political class,"

Academics agree that the end of the pandemic occurred in 1920, when society ended up developing a collective immunity to the Spanish flu, although the virus never completely disappeared.

Couple of points : crowds, hygiene, quarantine and lockdown measures. Sound familiar ?

'No hope' of a vaccine, we have.

Two years and three waves to see it controlled. Hope we could beat that tbh.
 

Snicky

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Patron
Spanish Flu , short timeline :

A pandemic swept through the US and Europe in 1918 killing, by some estimates, more than 50 million people.

It began between January and February in the United States when a flurry of people died after presenting symptoms of headaches, respiratory difficulties, cough and high fever.

A few months later, patients in France, Belgium and Germany had similar clinical symptoms and in May, a religious festival in Spain caused an outbreak of the same mysterious disease.

One of history's most devastating pandemics, the so-called Spanish Flu is seen as an important benchmark by historians who aim to learn lessons from past outbreaks in the face of the current coronavirus pandemic.

The lockdown measures put in place over a century ago sound familiar today: theatres, schools and borders were all closed.

Public spaces, including telephones, were disinfected, historians say and in the United States, people could be fined up to $100 for not wearing a mask.

In 1918, it was quickly understood that crowds could cause further transmission.

"Lockdowns were put in place and progress was made in the application of preventive measures that had historically proven effective,"

This included hygiene measures and quarantining those suspected of being contaminated.

Without hope of a vaccine or test, those fighting the 1918 pandemic faced different challenges and some expected summer temperatures to slow the virus' transmission.

The second wave of the epidemic, however, was more deadly than the first. In Spain it coincided with harvests and celebrations in September as well as the relaxation of lockdown measures ,Outbreaks occurred the following winter, in some areas there was a third wave in the early 1920s.

"The end of the pandemic depended on each country: on the information and training of its specialists and the interests of its political class,"

Academics agree that the end of the pandemic occurred in 1920, when society ended up developing a collective immunity to the Spanish flu, although the virus never completely disappeared.

Couple of points : crowds, hygiene, quarantine and lockdown measures. Sound familiar ?

'No hope' of a vaccine, we have.

Two years and three waves to see it controlled. Hope we could beat that tbh.
There is a popular opinion amongst epidemiologists and others that wave 2 of Spanish Flu was a different and separate virus.
 

Strongbow

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There is a popular opinion amongst epidemiologists and others that wave 2 of Spanish Flu was a different and separate virus.

Good point, just saw this :

"Traces of the same virus have been found in other flu viruses," said Dr Benito Almirante, head of infectious diseases at the Vall d'Hebron hospital in Barcelona. "The Spanish flu continued to appear, mutating and acquiring genetic material from other viruses."

For example, the 2009 flu had genetic elements from earlier viruses, so older individuals were better protected than the young, he said.

This also occurred with the Spanish flu, with those over the age of 30 having better survival rates, said Laura Lara Martínez. It is speculated this is because the older generation lived with the so-called Russian flu in 1889 and 1890.
 

jamesOB

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Patron
Spanish Flu , short timeline :

A pandemic swept through the US and Europe in 1918 killing, by some estimates, more than 50 million people.

It began between January and February in the United States when a flurry of people died after presenting symptoms of headaches, respiratory difficulties, cough and high fever.

A few months later, patients in France, Belgium and Germany had similar clinical symptoms and in May, a religious festival in Spain caused an outbreak of the same mysterious disease.

One of history's most devastating pandemics, the so-called Spanish Flu is seen as an important benchmark by historians who aim to learn lessons from past outbreaks in the face of the current coronavirus pandemic.

The lockdown measures put in place over a century ago sound familiar today: theatres, schools and borders were all closed.

Public spaces, including telephones, were disinfected, historians say and in the United States, people could be fined up to $100 for not wearing a mask.

In 1918, it was quickly understood that crowds could cause further transmission.

"Lockdowns were put in place and progress was made in the application of preventive measures that had historically proven effective,"

This included hygiene measures and quarantining those suspected of being contaminated.

Without hope of a vaccine or test, those fighting the 1918 pandemic faced different challenges and some expected summer temperatures to slow the virus' transmission.

The second wave of the epidemic, however, was more deadly than the first. In Spain it coincided with harvests and celebrations in September as well as the relaxation of lockdown measures ,Outbreaks occurred the following winter, in some areas there was a third wave in the early 1920s.

"The end of the pandemic depended on each country: on the information and training of its specialists and the interests of its political class,"

Academics agree that the end of the pandemic occurred in 1920, when society ended up developing a collective immunity to the Spanish flu, although the virus never completely disappeared.

Couple of points : crowds, hygiene, quarantine and lockdown measures. Sound familiar ?

'No hope' of a vaccine, we have.

Two years and three waves to see it controlled. Hope we could beat that tbh.
I’d rather we didn’t achieve herd immunity in the same way though

It involved killing off most of the viruses hosts
 

Strongbow

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I’d rather we didn’t achieve herd immunity in the same way though

It involved killing off most of the viruses hosts

Timing may be the key this time, the theory was that soldiers returning from war and the following migration was a major factor in the rapid spread. Many soldiers already had the virus after they died during the war it was found.
 

Bobbage

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Is that a twitter thread to the Minister who resigned ?
The former Chief Scientific Officer at Pfizer in charge of their respiratory research.. is urging a former minister to contact the police and arrest and interrogate key individuals involved in the Covid fraud. His contention is that this whole thing has been planned. That they have created the fear of a second wave that simply doesn't exist.. by relying on a PCR test that has many false positives. He is basically saying it isn't a cock up it is a criminal conspiracy.

Who isn't a "conspiracy theorist" now ?

So what's the alternative to a PCR test when the conspiracy theorists wet their pants when a Doctor or Nurse uses their professional expertise to identify a Covid death?
 

jamesOB

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Timing may be the key this time, the theory was that soldiers returning from war and the following migration was a major factor in the rapid spread. Many soldiers already had the virus after they died during the war it was found.
That was exactly the reason for the spread. Mass movement

We will never have something that devastating again
 

sliper

Forum Patron
Patron
Spanish Flu , short timeline :

A pandemic swept through the US and Europe in 1918 killing, by some estimates, more than 50 million people.

It began between January and February in the United States when a flurry of people died after presenting symptoms of headaches, respiratory difficulties, cough and high fever.

A few months later, patients in France, Belgium and Germany had similar clinical symptoms and in May, a religious festival in Spain caused an outbreak of the same mysterious disease.

One of history's most devastating pandemics, the so-called Spanish Flu is seen as an important benchmark by historians who aim to learn lessons from past outbreaks in the face of the current coronavirus pandemic.

The lockdown measures put in place over a century ago sound familiar today: theatres, schools and borders were all closed.

Public spaces, including telephones, were disinfected, historians say and in the United States, people could be fined up to $100 for not wearing a mask.

In 1918, it was quickly understood that crowds could cause further transmission.

"Lockdowns were put in place and progress was made in the application of preventive measures that had historically proven effective,"

This included hygiene measures and quarantining those suspected of being contaminated.

Without hope of a vaccine or test, those fighting the 1918 pandemic faced different challenges and some expected summer temperatures to slow the virus' transmission.

The second wave of the epidemic, however, was more deadly than the first. In Spain it coincided with harvests and celebrations in September as well as the relaxation of lockdown measures ,Outbreaks occurred the following winter, in some areas there was a third wave in the early 1920s.

"The end of the pandemic depended on each country: on the information and training of its specialists and the interests of its political class,"

Academics agree that the end of the pandemic occurred in 1920, when society ended up developing a collective immunity to the Spanish flu, although the virus never completely disappeared.

Couple of points : crowds, hygiene, quarantine and lockdown measures. Sound familiar ?

'No hope' of a vaccine, we have.

Two years and three waves to see it controlled. Hope we could beat that tbh.

If you are prepared to consider an almost complete refutation of that argument read the link in Post 2117
 

Snicky

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So what's the alternative?
Listen to these other opinions and discuss them.
That is the most frustrating part for me, those in power not addressing these other concerns in detail and not being questioned on them properly.
Hancock made a statement in the commons last week about the GBD but never addressed or ignored some key points.
 
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