Covid 19 - counter arguments

paddysr

Bearded Beauty
Staff member
Patron
Absolutely but imo this is where we will end up. Low vaccination rates would risk summer flights being able to take place, and travel companies can’t afford another summer with low numbers
True enough. As I said earlier private companies can do what they want.
 

Regardless

Forum Patron
Patron
Because they are lying to us about their motives

They know most folks will say I can't afford/haven't got the time to get tested everyday and will opt for the vaccine. So the health passport pushes people into getting vaccinated.. which is what they intended all along ! Mess folks about.. don't cancel.. then cancel Christmas.. more scare stories about mutations.... end lockdowns bring in Tiers... and then after months of it offer them a way out.. and the vast majority will say "great let me have it". People who refuse it.. will be treated like lepers.

Every move ratchets us another step in the direction they want to take us.
They aren't yet confident enough to make the vaccine mandatory but they are heading in that direction.

Some utter stupidity in here. Dangerous stupidity at that.

Earlier you also condescendingly talked about face nappies - and that isn’t idle humour - it is carefully placed pejorative language, designed to ensnare the gullible. You draw people in with a few interesting counterpoints- but the mask slips on occasion. I suspect deliberately- classic controlling tactics.
 

finney

Manager
Some utter stupidity in here. Dangerous stupidity at that.

Earlier you also condescendingly talked about face nappies - and that isn’t idle humour - it is carefully placed pejorative language, designed to ensnare the gullible. You draw people in with a few interesting counterpoints- but the mask slips on occasion. I suspect deliberately- classic controlling tactics.

Agreee, Sliper your a devious totalitarian spreading propaganda 'to ensnare the gullible'.
Highly dangerous you are so I think for the good of all freedom lovers, who already have sufficient access to the all the required state sanctioned information and opinions they need, this entire thread should be deleted immediately.
 
OP
sliper

sliper

Forum Patron
Patron
Agreee, Sliper your a devious totalitarian spreading propaganda 'to ensnare the gullible'.
Highly dangerous you are so I think for the good of all freedom lovers, who already have sufficient access to the all the required state sanctioned information and opinions they need, this entire thread should be deleted immediately.

Damn I've been rumbled.. I'm actually Xi Jinping and I'm here practicing mind control tactics for world domination.
(Evil laugh)
 
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finney

Manager
Damn I've been rumbled.. I'm actually Xi Jinping and I'm here practicing mind control tactics for world domination.
(Evil laugh)

Aha! That's not true, if you really where Xi you would be far more supportive of the Chinese model we should be emulating which has been far more successful in beating this killer epidemic, if you read the papers and watched the news like most informed people you would know that China literally had people dropping dead in the streets now they are having pop festivals at water parks.
Actually you could become a lot more informed by listening to these two fine upstanding highly qualified individuals with unblemished track records. They know what's best for us......

 

raefil

Shit Fan
Patron


Where are we with Covid-19 in England now that the new tiers have started?

TLDR: nowhere good and things are quite scary. 1/13
Firstly, overall cases are rising sharply. Over 40,000 people tested on 21st Dec, tested positive - just in *England*. (this is "specimen date", not "reporting date"). 2/13 Image
Looking at it regionally, the SE is still the epicentre of new cases. London cases per 100K people now *much* higher than anywhere in the North in Oct/Nov.

BUT everywhere is going up. This is *not* just a Southern problem. 3/13 Image
Hospital admissions reflect case patterns - except that the NE & Yorks never dropped very low before plateauing. London, SE and East shooting up past the NW and Midlands. This is only to 21st Dec - probably much worse already :-( . 2nd plot shows how fast London is rising. 4/13 Image Image
Overall hospital occupancy as of 24th December was only a few hundred people below the April peak. It's probably already above, or will be within a day or two. And, unlike April, we are not controlling the rise yet. 5/13 Image
Spare a thought for NHS frontline workers - already exhausted & traumatised - facing a rapidly worsening situation. We don't have unlimited docs, nurses or other frontline staff. They need our support. Why is this not in the media? 6/13
Will the new tiers be enough? In a word - no. Especially not after Christmas. The Tier 4 areas (inc the new tier 4) are shooting up still, but tiers 2 and 3 rising substantially too. This is not under control. 7/13 Image
Let's look at the new Tier 3 and 4 areas (mostly South and midlands) - and how they compare to the old Tier 3 areas (mostly North and midlands). Look how fast new Tier 3 places are going up. With old Tier 3 going up *and* new variant spreading - we need national tier 4. 8/13 Image
Christmas *will* have made everything worse - how can it not have? Test turnaround times have been getting much longer again, fewer people will get tests at Xmas, reporting will be slower... for the next week at least we cannot rely on the case data. Flying pretty blind. 9/13
Hospital data when it gets updated again (last updated on 24th) might help *but* reflects infections from 10 days or so earlier. But we desperately need an answer as to whether tier 4 is enough to bring R below 1. I don't know when we'll know. 10/13
And this is especially concerning as schools & unis due to start back in a few weeks. New paper from @LSHTM & @imperialcollege warned that Tier 4 with open schools & unis very unlikely to be enough. cmmid.github.io/topics/covid19…11/13

Estimated transmissibility and severity of novel SARS-CoV-2 Variant of Concern 202012/01 in EnglandCombining multiple behavioural and epidemiological data sources with mathematical models, we analysed the transmissibility and severity of novel SARS-CoV-2 Variant of Concern 202012/01 in England.
https://cmmid.github.io/topics/covid19/uk-novel-variant.html
We need a radical rethink of how we control the virus. The new variant is seriously bad news and, especially with Christmas, we are unlikely to have stopped it spreading across the country. Unfortunately I think the next 4-6 weeks are going to be pretty awful. 12/13
There really is no point in sugar coating it. If it weren't for the vaccine(s) I'd be seriously scared out of my wits. I still am pretty scared. The govt urgently needs a new plan - with national tier 4 being only the start. 13/13
 
OP
sliper

sliper

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Patron
Thanks to St Tony and Prof Neil.. and a free vacation at the re-education camp

I can now put together a wicked stir fry and after a couple of jabs I suddenly am able to spot unfounded conspiracy theories and will no longer ever ever again mention....

"face nappies" !

D'oh !
 

Regardless

Forum Patron
Patron
Thanks to St Tony and Prof Neil.. and a free vacation at the re-education camp

I can now put together a wicked stir fry and after a couple of jabs I suddenly am able to spot unfounded conspiracy theories and will no longer ever ever again mention....

"face nappies" !

D'oh !
Do you somehow see raef’s post above as supportive of your “ideas”?
 

portisheadpete

Forum Patron
Patron


Where are we with Covid-19 in England now that the new tiers have started?

TLDR: nowhere good and things are quite scary. 1/13
Firstly, overall cases are rising sharply. Over 40,000 people tested on 21st Dec, tested positive - just in *England*. (this is "specimen date", not "reporting date"). 2/13 Image
Looking at it regionally, the SE is still the epicentre of new cases. London cases per 100K people now *much* higher than anywhere in the North in Oct/Nov.

BUT everywhere is going up. This is *not* just a Southern problem. 3/13 Image
Hospital admissions reflect case patterns - except that the NE & Yorks never dropped very low before plateauing. London, SE and East shooting up past the NW and Midlands. This is only to 21st Dec - probably much worse already :-( . 2nd plot shows how fast London is rising. 4/13 Image Image
Overall hospital occupancy as of 24th December was only a few hundred people below the April peak. It's probably already above, or will be within a day or two. And, unlike April, we are not controlling the rise yet. 5/13 Image
Spare a thought for NHS frontline workers - already exhausted & traumatised - facing a rapidly worsening situation. We don't have unlimited docs, nurses or other frontline staff. They need our support. Why is this not in the media? 6/13
Will the new tiers be enough? In a word - no. Especially not after Christmas. The Tier 4 areas (inc the new tier 4) are shooting up still, but tiers 2 and 3 rising substantially too. This is not under control. 7/13 Image
Let's look at the new Tier 3 and 4 areas (mostly South and midlands) - and how they compare to the old Tier 3 areas (mostly North and midlands). Look how fast new Tier 3 places are going up. With old Tier 3 going up *and* new variant spreading - we need national tier 4. 8/13 Image
Christmas *will* have made everything worse - how can it not have? Test turnaround times have been getting much longer again, fewer people will get tests at Xmas, reporting will be slower... for the next week at least we cannot rely on the case data. Flying pretty blind. 9/13
Hospital data when it gets updated again (last updated on 24th) might help *but* reflects infections from 10 days or so earlier. But we desperately need an answer as to whether tier 4 is enough to bring R below 1. I don't know when we'll know. 10/13
And this is especially concerning as schools & unis due to start back in a few weeks. New paper from @LSHTM & @imperialcollege warned that Tier 4 with open schools & unis very unlikely to be enough. cmmid.github.io/topics/covid19…11/13

Estimated transmissibility and severity of novel SARS-CoV-2 Variant of Concern 202012/01 in EnglandCombining multiple behavioural and epidemiological data sources with mathematical models, we analysed the transmissibility and severity of novel SARS-CoV-2 Variant of Concern 202012/01 in England.
https://cmmid.github.io/topics/covid19/uk-novel-variant.html
We need a radical rethink of how we control the virus. The new variant is seriously bad news and, especially with Christmas, we are unlikely to have stopped it spreading across the country. Unfortunately I think the next 4-6 weeks are going to be pretty awful. 12/13
There really is no point in sugar coating it. If it weren't for the vaccine(s) I'd be seriously scared out of my wits. I still am pretty scared. The govt urgently needs a new plan - with national tier 4 being only the start. 13/13

Next doors overnighters just emerged in their pyjamas to put their sleeping bags in the car. Its all a bit crap that people cant do without a family pissup. Just this once. Especially when no doubt there are still people living in Aleppo in a shell of a house with little hope.
 

raefil

Shit Fan
Patron
Thanks to St Tony and Prof Neil.. and a free vacation at the re-education camp

I can now put together a wicked stir fry and after a couple of jabs I suddenly am able to spot unfounded conspiracy theories and will no longer ever ever again mention....

"face nappies" !

D'oh !
Im not going to let you hide from the fact that you were the person, right at the start of this, who pushed the use of, "Face Nappies," for the "Psuedo Virus."

Yes sliper you. You encouraged us all to follow Dr Campbell who, back then and even now, still gives the single best expalanations of where we are at.

All your own work, sliper.

His latest video.

 
OP
sliper

sliper

Forum Patron
Patron
Do you somehow see raef’s post above as supportive of your “ideas”?

Nope..

1. Can a PCR test differentiate between live and dead virus ?
2. Can a PCR test differentiate between different types of corona virus ?
3. How many cycles were used in these tests ? (According to PCR's inventor anything above 30 is meaningless)
4. And if PCR can't differentiate how do you know what the true "positive" number is ?
5. What is the False Positive Rate for these tests ?
6. Why would anyone call PCR positives a "case" or an "infection" if the answer to 1 & 2 is "no" and 3 is "above 30" ?
7. Given the doubts about PCR.. Dover lorry driver testing only 1 in 434 lorry drivers had positive LFT test; yet latest ONS survey (using PCR) says 1 in 8 population currently positive. How would you explain this discrepancy ? One of these tests is clearly providing wrong figures.

9. What evidence is there of asymptomatic transmission of the Covid 19 as alleged by Matt Hancock ?

10. What evidence is there to support the use of face masks by the public ?

11. What proportion of hospital admissions were admitted for other treatment ? Then tested positive and became "Covid patients" ?

12. What is the status ICU use at the moment and how does this compare to previous years ?
13. If we are in second wave comparable or exceeding last spring why are Nightingale Hospitals largely unused ?

14. What is the total annual UK mortality compared to the last five years ?

1609079122723.png

 

Regardless

Forum Patron
Patron
Nope..

1. Can a PCR test differentiate between live and dead virus ?
2. Can a PCR test differentiate between different types of corona virus ?
3. How many cycles were used in these tests ? (According to PCR's inventor anything above 30 is meaningless)
4. And if PCR can't differentiate how do you know what the true "positive" number is ?
5. What is the False Positive Rate for these tests ?
6. Why would anyone call PCR positives a "case" or an "infection" if the answer to 1 & 2 is "no" and 3 is "above 30" ?
7. Given the doubts about PCR.. Dover lorry driver testing only 1 in 434 lorry drivers had positive LFT test; yet latest ONS survey (using PCR) says 1 in 8 population currently positive. How would you explain this discrepancy ? One of these tests is clearly providing wrong figures.

9. What evidence is there of asymptomatic transmission of the Covid 19 as alleged by Matt Hancock ?

10. What evidence is there to support the use of face masks by the public ?

11. What proportion of hospital admissions were admitted for other treatment ? Then tested positive and became "Covid patients" ?

12. What is the status ICU use at the moment and how does this compare to previous years ?
13. If we are in second wave comparable or exceeding last spring why are Nightingale Hospitals largely unused ?

14. What is the total annual UK mortality compared to the last five years ?

View attachment 2498


Right now, I cannot compete with that barrage of information. One immediate question springs to mind. Whilst I share some scepticism of the PCR test, how do explain the apparent decline in new cases during lockdowns?
I look much more at hospitalisations though.

Plenty of evidence that masks have an effect.

Lunch time.
 
OP
sliper

sliper

Forum Patron
Patron
Twitter appears to be restricting access to this article.. but it can be found in the web archive

University of Florida study finds no evidence of asymptomatic or pre symptomatic spread.


Remind me again why we are all forced to wear masks and limit contact with our families ?

Every year in the UK, roughly 100,000 people die ‘for any reason’ within 28 days (ish) of a haircut.
 
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Nobber

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Patron

jakehake

Preachs PA
Staff member
Patron
Twitter appears to be restricting access to this article.. but it can be found in the web archive

University of Florida study finds no evidence of asymptomatic or pre symptomatic spread.


Remind me again why we are all forced to wear masks and limit contact with our families ?

You've outdone yourself with this one. Have you read anythng bar the headline? In fact don't answer, I know you won't have

"The Alachua Chronicle"...you can see why they pulled the article I presume as the headline and the content aren't even the same?

Odd that your conclusion is mask wearing is wrong and the study conclusion says we should be wearing masks at home as well whilst you are sat watching TV with your family. I mean well done on missing the point spectacularly

1609238850581.png
 
OP
sliper

sliper

Forum Patron
Patron
You've outdone yourself with this one. Have you read anythng bar the headline? In fact don't answer, I know you won't have

"The Alachua Chronicle"...you can see why they pulled the article I presume as the headline and the content aren't even the same?

Odd that your conclusion is mask wearing is wrong and the study conclusion says we should be wearing masks at home as well whilst you are sat watching TV with your family. I mean well done on missing the point spectacularly

View attachment 2517

This is the part I took note of..
"The asymptomatic/presymptomatic secondary attack rate is not statistically different from zero, and the confidence interval is technically 0.7 ± 4.2, resulting in a range of -3.5%-4.9%, but attack rates cannot be negative, so it is truncated at 0."

It doesn't take a lot of working out to reach the conclusion that if you can't catch Covid from somebody with no symptoms that tht recommendation would only apply to households where someone has symptoms.
 
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