Covid 19 - counter arguments

Bobbage

4th Choice Keeper
Patron
Can you imagine where we'd be at right now if the Great Barrington Declaration had been followed as a policy from October onwards and over Winter?

"Those who are not vulnerable should immediately be allowed to resume life as normal. Simple hygiene measures, such as hand washing and staying home when sick should be practiced by everyone to reduce the herd immunity threshold. Schools and universities should be open for in-person teaching. Extracurricular activities, such as sports, should be resumed. Young low-risk adults should work normally, rather than from home. Restaurants and other businesses should open. Arts, music, sport and other cultural activities should resume. People who are more at risk may participate if they wish, while society as a whole enjoys the protection conferred upon the vulnerable by those who have built up herd immunity..."

Scary.
 
Can you imagine where we'd be at right now if the Great Barrington Declaration had been followed as a policy from October onwards and over Winter?

"Those who are not vulnerable should immediately be allowed to resume life as normal. Simple hygiene measures, such as hand washing and staying home when sick should be practiced by everyone to reduce the herd immunity threshold. Schools and universities should be open for in-person teaching. Extracurricular activities, such as sports, should be resumed. Young low-risk adults should work normally, rather than from home. Restaurants and other businesses should open. Arts, music, sport and other cultural activities should resume. People who are more at risk may participate if they wish, while society as a whole enjoys the protection conferred upon the vulnerable by those who have built up herd immunity..."

Scary.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/eci.13484

But they did not recommend from October onwards did they. They recommended from the beginning of the pandemic and what they recommended has now been backed by those other thicko’s from Stanford University 🤷🏼‍♂️
 
They published it on October the 4th. Do you research anything you post on this forum?
This is just a continuation of what they have been recommending all along. What do you think about the extensive research note that Stanford have produced using facts and the knowledge of what has happened in the past 12 months. I note you all like to like the lockdown response without actually questioning the possibility that maybe we have been sold a pup by sage and the idiot Ferguson 🤔
 
This is just a continuation of what they have been recommending all along. What do you think about the extensive research note that Stanford have produced using facts and the knowledge of what has happened in the past 12 months. I note you all like to like the lockdown response without actually questioning the possibility that maybe we have been sold a pup by sage and the idiot Ferguson 🤔

Jesus christ. You think the Barrington declaration works? You sit there looking at NHS ICU's up and down the country completely full only this time we're seeing more and more 30, 40 and 50 year olds intubated and think to yourself, if only we had allowed this virus to spread even more? What fucking planet are you on? Fact is we have been shielding the vulnerable so thats the first part of the declaration right there. Second part is allow everyone else to crack on. Well we tried that in London pre Chrstmas and we had to lock down there on the 19th December because the virus went fucking mental. What will it take for you to admit you backed the wrong horse?
 
Jesus christ. You think the Barrington declaration works? You sit there looking at NHS ICU's up and down the country completely full only this time we're seeing more and more 30, 40 and 50 year olds intubated and think to yourself, if only we had allowed this virus to spread even more? What fucking planet are you on? Fact is we have been shielding the vulnerable so thats the first part of the declaration right there. Second part is allow everyone else to crack on. Well we tried that in London pre Chrstmas and we had to lock down there on the 19th December because the virus went fucking mental. What will it take for you to admit you backed the wrong horse?
So you think the research note by Stanford is incorrect then ?
 
So you think the research note by Stanford is incorrect then ?

If it is the Barrington Declaration yes I do and I'll tell you why. You can't shield the vulnerable AND allow the virus to run through society because as anyone who has ever had to care for someone will tell you, a vulnerable person cannot simply exist on their own without a massive support network. If they are in a care home they rely on the carers, the carers can't lock themselves away too, they have to get to work on busses, they have to do school runs, go shopping etc and thats just the carers, what about the delivery men, the tradesmen, the food packagers, the doctors, the nurses? It was the most flawed piece of bullshit I have ever read but I notice your argument seems to be that because academics wrote it I must believe it. Why then are you constantly questioning Neil Ferguson? He's an academic too and you think he gets it wrong. So why then are you insisting that I accept what is clearly a flawed interpretation of the real world simply on the basis someone from Stanford Uni was involved in it? Why do I have to accept this and yet you are allowed to not accept what Ferguson says? More to the point why don't we swerve the academics and rely on our own judgement? So I'll ask you direct. How do you properly isolate vulnerable people if you allow covid to run through their support network?
 

portisheadpete

Forum Patron
Patron
If it is the Barrington Declaration yes I do and I'll tell you why. You can't shield the vulnerable AND allow the virus to run through society because as anyone who has ever had to care for someone will tell you, a vulnerable person cannot simply exist on their own without a massive support network. If they are in a care home they rely on the carers, the carers can't lock themselves away too, they have to get to work on busses, they have to do school runs, go shopping etc and thats just the carers, what about the delivery men, the tradesmen, the food packagers, the doctors, the nurses? It was the most flawed piece of bullshit I have ever read but I notice your argument seems to be that because academics wrote it I must believe it. Why then are you constantly questioning Neil Ferguson? He's an academic too and you think he gets it wrong. So why then are you insisting that I accept what is clearly a flawed interpretation of the real world simply on the basis someone from Stanford Uni was involved in it? Why do I have to accept this and yet you are allowed to not accept what Ferguson says? More to the point why don't we swerve the academics and rely on our own judgement? So I'll ask you direct. How do you properly isolate vulnerable people if you allow covid to run through their support network?

You need to cater for the fact that hes a tory and that fundamentally he doesnt give a feck about the vulnerable and their support network. The later should be dismantled anyway as a drain on the economy. But one lesson we can draw from Trump is that these views needs challenging every single time or they otherwise become the order of the day. Thats the tory way. Whilst doctors/nurses are working their butts off distracted for the common good, theyre weaseling away shafting everybody for their own pockets.
 
So you did not read the report which proves that lockdowns have not made any difference . I am surprised that you put so much faith in predictions from a scientist who has form for exaggerating and getting things wrong than a research note from scientists who are using actual statistics from what are now historical facts. Just carry on with the same failed policy because it worked ( so we are told) in a police state namely , China. We cannot do what China did in the UK , so lockdown, do not lockdown, the vulnerable will be at risk whichever policy you have . His predictions on other viruses and this one have been grossly exaggerated, , by locking down with different interventions after the first wave he suppressed it which is generally viewed as a reason for allowing mutations and a larger second wave than would have happened if we hadn’t suppressed the first wave . All those scientist with views different to the one we have to obey and there are hundred of them, have used historical viruses to chart what would happen with this virus and they have been far more accurate with their predictions than Sage and Ferguson.
 
You need to cater for the fact that hes a tory and that fundamentally he doesnt give a feck about the vulnerable and their support network. The later should be dismantled anyway as a drain on the economy. But one lesson we can draw from Trump is that these views needs challenging every single time or they otherwise become the order of the day. Thats the tory way. Whilst doctors/nurses are working their butts off distracted for the common good, theyre weaseling away shafting everybody for their own pockets.
I think that what we have learned from the Trump saga is that even if we think his views are wrong , he has a right to put them out there. You would prefer only your own point of view to be aired because you are so righteously correct all the time. When BLM call for violence or even Pelosi calls for investigation into fraudulent voting when the shoe was on the other foot I did not see the big tech companies rushing to ban them from social media. I am for equality, if one side can post then so can the other.
Yes Trumps comments should be challenged but how can you do that if you cannot see what his comments are ? There are 85 million Americans looking for somewhere other than Twitter etc to post their views , this inevitably will lead to less debate and possibly a more divided world.
 

portisheadpete

Forum Patron
Patron
So you did not read the report which proves that lockdowns have not made any difference . I am surprised that you put so much faith in predictions from a scientist who has form for exaggerating and getting things wrong than a research note from scientists who are using actual statistics from what are now historical facts. Just carry on with the same failed policy because it worked ( so we are told) in a police state namely , China. We cannot do what China did in the UK , so lockdown, do not lockdown, the vulnerable will be at risk whichever policy you have . His predictions on other viruses and this one have been grossly exaggerated, , by locking down with different interventions after the first wave he suppressed it which is generally viewed as a reason for allowing mutations and a larger second wave than would have happened if we hadn’t suppressed the first wave . All those scientist with views different to the one we have to obey and there are hundred of them, have used historical viruses to chart what would happen with this virus and they have been far more accurate with their predictions than Sage and Ferguson.

My understanding is that a virus mutates the more it replicates and produces errors. The opposite of what you just wrote. Therefore no surprise the latest variants originate in UK and Brazil. That aside since neither of us are experts, your anti lockdown policy applied currently to UK which is exercising a light touch 'lockdown' with low compliance would have people dying in exponential numbers without ICU or oxygen. And your answer to this is what? Presumably that the shortages are fiction. And how exactly does your herd immunity work long term when immunity is time limited without updated immunisations. Which werent around when Ken Barrington declared.
 
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