Election debate

norfolk white

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How many households sponging their way to (mostly going in the way of the landlords via H.B.) does it take to match just one right royal arse-licking cheat such as Gary Barlow?

Then you get to the real cheats, the real experts on the subject and the one's born into it.

And peeps like you prefer to make their minds up from channel 5 programmes and other equally trashy sources, often pretending to have itk mates.

Bollocks.

So what you are saying is that I am telling a load of lies when I say that in my work for different local authorities (BTW I have worked for Barnsley MBC, Doncaster MBC, Great Yarmouth BC and South Norfolk BC plus worked with other local authorities and RSLs (Housing Associations)) and I have met/interviewed individuals who have bragged about not working or wanting to work because of the amount they can claim? If so then maybe I am not making myself clear enough. I have every respect for those who have worked and want to work but though no fault of their own are out of work and struggling to make ends meet. If you are aged over 50 years old I know it is very hard to gain employment because of I suspect ageism, I have been through it all myself and that is why I set up my own company. What I do think is unfair is all those who have never paid in to the system (whether they be immigrants or British) and have no intention of doing so getting as much or more than those who have. Is it fair for someone, male or female, to have worked hard all their lives and get the same state pension as those who have drained the system all their lives and never had a days work and never have wanted to?

I know it can be hard to find work, but it isn't impossible it does depend how picky people are on what they do. there is someone who goes litter picking for the council around the streets where I live, he was made redundant from a decent paid job he loved but rather than be a burden on the system and sit on his backside all day he applied for the job and got it (he is 61 years old).

Regarding 'zero hour' contracts, what a waist they are. OK some may be happy to have them but for those who want to work they are not worth they paper they are written on and to remove someone from the unemployment total who is on a zero hour contract is nonsensical. I would love to know what the unemployment would be if they were calculated in the same way as they were in the 1970's, I'm sure it would show a massive increase in the total.

As for those others who try and cheat the system, whether it be so called celebrities, MPs, royals, etc then I agree with you, they should all be made to pay back what they have made/saved plus interest. And don't get me on to MP expenses, individuals know what the pay is for an MP before they stand so why should they moan or want to claim more through expenses if they are not happy, to me not enough were charged or put in prison, there are too many politicians who are dishonest and in it for their own ends within each of the parties.

However, back to my original point, does it make it right that the workshy get as much if not more than the honest working man?
 
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raefil

Shit Fan
Patron
So what you are saying is that I am telling a load of lies when I say that in my work for different local authorities (BTW I have worked for Barnsley MBC, Doncaster MBC, Great Yarmouth BC and South Norfolk BC plus worked with other local authorities and RSLs (Housing Associations)) and I have met/interviewed individuals who have bragged about not working or wanting to work because of the amount they can claim? If so then maybe I am not making myself clear enough. I have every respect for those who have worked and want to work but though no fault of their own are out of work and struggling to make ends meet. If you are aged over 50 years old I know it is very hard to gain employment because of I suspect ageism, I have been through it all myself and that is why I set up my own company. What I do think is unfair is all those who have never paid in to the system (whether they be immigrants or British) and have no intention of doing so getting as much or more than those who have. Is it fair for someone, male or female, to have worked hard all their lives and get the same state pension as those who have drained the system all their lives and never had a days work and never have wanted to?

I know it can be hard to find work, but it isn't impossible it does depend how picky people are on what they do. there is someone who goes litter picking for the council around the streets where I live, he was made redundant from a decent paid job he loved but rather than be a burden on the system and sit on his backside all day he applied for the job and got it (he is 61 years old).

Regarding 'zero hour' contracts, what a waist they are. OK some may be happy to have them but for those who want to work they are not worth they paper they are written on and to remove someone from the unemployment total who is on a zero hour contract is nonsensical. I would love to know what the unemployment would be if they were calculated in the same way as they were in the 1970's, I'm sure it would show a massive increase in the total.

As for those others who try and cheat the system, whether it be so called celebrities, MPs, royals, etc then I agree with you, they should all be made to pay back what they have made/saved plus interest. And don't get me on to MP expenses, individuals know what the pay is for an MP before they stand so why should they moan or want to claim more through expenses if they are not happy, to me not enough were charged or put in prison, there are too many politicians who are dishonest and in it for their own ends within each of the parties.

However, back to my original point, does it make it right that the workshy get as much if not more than the honest working man?

Those are a massive minority, and it is now more and more difficult to claim any benefits, hence the explosion in foodbanks. the days of the workshy, sponger, are all but behind us now, TBH, especially with the benefit cap and change in disability rules. sure, there are some, but nowhere near as many as the tabloids would have us believe. I guess this all for a different debate really.
 
So what you are saying is that I am telling a load of lies when I say that in my work for different local authorities (BTW I have worked for Barnsley MBC, Doncaster MBC, Great Yarmouth BC and South Norfolk BC plus worked with other local authorities and RSLs (Housing Associations)) and I have met/interviewed individuals who have bragged about not working or wanting to work because of the amount they can claim? If so then maybe I am not making myself clear enough. I have every respect for those who have worked and want to work but though no fault of their own are out of work and struggling to make ends meet. If you are aged over 50 years old I know it is very hard to gain employment because of I suspect ageism, I have been through it all myself and that is why I set up my own company. What I do think is unfair is all those who have never paid in to the system (whether they be immigrants or British) and have no intention of doing so getting as much or more than those who have. Is it fair for someone, male or female, to have worked hard all their lives and get the same state pension as those who have drained the system all their lives and never had a days work and never have wanted to?

I know it can be hard to find work, but it isn't impossible it does depend how picky people are on what they do. there is someone who goes litter picking for the council around the streets where I live, he was made redundant from a decent paid job he loved but rather than be a burden on the system and sit on his backside all day he applied for the job and got it (he is 61 years old).

Regarding 'zero hour' contracts, what a waist they are. OK some may be happy to have them but for those who want to work they are not worth they paper they are written on and to remove someone from the unemployment total who is on a zero hour contract is nonsensical. I would love to know what the unemployment would be if they were calculated in the same way as they were in the 1970's, I'm sure it would show a massive increase in the total.

As for those others who try and cheat the system, whether it be so called celebrities, MPs, royals, etc then I agree with you, they should all be made to pay back what they have made/saved plus interest. And don't get me on to MP expenses, individuals know what the pay is for an MP before they stand so why should they moan or want to claim more through expenses if they are not happy, to me not enough were charged or put in prison, there are too many politicians who are dishonest and in it for their own ends within each of the parties.

However, back to my original point, does it make it right that the workshy get as much if not more than the honest working man?

I do understand your points......but the cost of the 'spongers/scroungers/wasters....etc to the nation is by far outweighed by the under-contribution of those who want to protect their own.

The fact that the British media is in the majority right wing, is purely a reflection of it's ownership.

This argument will go on until we all blow each other up.
A question to you.

How would you sort out a family like this one without starving and depriving the kids?


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...o-insists-God-says-go-forth-and-multiply.html
 
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Nobber

Forum Patron
Patron
L
I do understand your points......but the cost of the 'spongers/scroungers/wasters....etc to the nation is by far outweighed by the under-contribution of those who want to protect their own.

The fact that the British media is in the majority right wing, is purely a reflection of it's ownership.

This argument will go on until we all blow each other up.
A question to you.

How would you sort out a family like this one without starving and depriving the kids?


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...o-insists-God-says-go-forth-and-multiply.html
Take the kids into care.
 

norfolk white

Moderator
Staff member
Patron
I do understand your points......but the cost of the 'spongers/scroungers/wasters....etc to the nation is by far outweighed by the under-contribution of those who want to protect their own.

The fact that the British media is in the majority right wing, is purely a reflection of it's ownership.

This argument will go on until we all blow each other up.
A question to you.

How would you sort out a family like this one without starving and depriving the kids?


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...o-insists-God-says-go-forth-and-multiply.html

I agree with Nobber
Take the kids into care.

I don't see how this situation can be blamed on whoever is in Government, the individual is reckless, uncaring, selfish, etc. He obviously has had some money he could have spent on his kids but has spent it on himself drinking.

I'll ask you a question - Does someone have the right to have a large family if they cannot look after them? Also, how would you sort out a family like this one without starving and depriving the kids?
 

MJB

Manager
Kids in care are getting abused. According to the media.

Some kids in care are, thats a fact. The vast majority are not and probably are in a better and a safer place than they would be iof they had been left with their natural parents/parent.
 

raefil

Shit Fan
Patron
Some kids in care are, thats a fact. The vast majority are not and probably are in a better and a safer place than they would be iof they had been left with their natural parents/parent.

Totally agree, but thats how our media works, just as all folk on benefits are as described by Norfolk.

 

MJB

Manager
Totally agree, but thats how our media works, just as all folk on benefits are as described by Norfolk.


So even though Norfolk has a lot experience in the matter and appears o know what he is talking about, you still discount its validity because some in the media agree with part of what he said?
 

raefil

Shit Fan
Patron
So even though Norfolk has a lot experience in the matter and appears o know what he is talking about, you still discount its validity because some in the media agree with part of what he said?

His experience is very similar to mine, and whilst I have come across some, as he describes, the vast vast majority of people are generally only very temporarily claiming benefits. DWPs own figures actually prove that.

The clampdown on the Feckless has been running for years now and its extremely difficult even for the most genuine of claimants to make claims now, in fact without professional advice, for some, almost impossible. Its no coincidence that fundings for that type of advice has been withdrawn.
 
I'll ask you a question - Does someone have the right to have a large family if they cannot look after them? Also, how would you sort out a family like this one without starving and depriving the kids?

I'd wonder just how much of a burden each is, in comparison. Then I'd wonder about the causes.
 

sliper

Forum Patron
Patron
Latest YouGov poll (11 - 12 Apr):
LAB - 36% (+2)
CON - 33% (-1)
UKIP - 13% (-)
LDEM - 7% (-)
GRN - 5% (-1)

I wonder what percentage are "don't know"s and "won't say"s" ? I think there is quite a bit of uncertainty in this election about a larger than usual percentage who fall into this category.
 

pneef

First Team
I wonder what percentage are "don't know"s and "won't say"s" ? I think there is quite a bit of uncertainty in this election about a larger than usual percentage who fall into this category.

I think you're spot on. I tend to be around the middle of the political spectrum and I'm more undecided than ever this year.

Here's my issue. I tend towards the middle, so rule out the extremist parties (Greens, UKIP) & you're only left with three options. But the Lib Dems could feasibly jump into bed with either of the big two, so you are left with a choice of two. Then you look at the most likely coalition partners for each and you're faced with the extremist parties you tried to exclude in the first place!

I actually think the best outcome would be a grand coalition. But I think there's more chance of Blackpool winning next year's FA cup than that happening.
 

sliper

Forum Patron
Patron
I think you're spot on. I tend to be around the middle of the political spectrum and I'm more undecided than ever this year.

Here's my issue. I tend towards the middle, so rule out the extremist parties (Greens, UKIP) & you're only left with three options. But the Lib Dems could feasibly jump into bed with either of the big two, so you are left with a choice of two. Then you look at the most likely coalition partners for each and you're faced with the extremist parties you tried to exclude in the first place!

I actually think the best outcome would be a grand coalition. But I think there's more chance of Blackpool winning next year's FA cup than that happening.

My problem is that I agree and disagree with each party on at least one issue..I don't really have any loyalty to any particular party. I don't really see them as representing folks like me.
I see both major parties as in bed with monopolistic big business.
Do I really trust any of them ? No.
 

jakehake

Preachs PA
Staff member
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My problem is that I agree and disagree with each party on at least one issue..I don't really have any loyalty to any particular party. I don't really see them as representing folks like me.
I see both major parties as in bed with monopolistic big business.
Do I really trust any of them ? No.

The yougov constituency pages are quite good (https://yougov.co.uk/#/constituency/109/nowcast/ ), shows the current spread for each party in your own constituency and gives you an idea if tactical voting could actually make a difference. Like you say though, I don't agree completely with any of the 5 choices I have, plus it's likely to be a straight out between Tory and UKIP in my constituency and no amount of tactics can stop it. There are hustings this week so may head down just to see if any of them can even make a coherent argument
 

One of our own

Youth Team
Election debate

My problem is that I agree and disagree with each party on at least one issue..I don't really have any loyalty to any particular party. I don't really see them as representing folks like me.
I see both major parties as in bed with monopolistic big business.
Do I really trust any of them ? No.

I'm the same.... All have policies I agree / disagree with but id rather keep Cameron at the helm than Miliband.... and UKIP alongside them as some of their policies make sense they just need toning down a bit....

Worst case scenario Labour SNP

Regardless of who is in they will all screw us someway or another...
 

raefil

Shit Fan
Patron
At this point I will be voting labour. My natural choice was the Greens as they were a lot further left than the labour party.

My reasoning:

I see in ed milliband a slight, albeit only slight a move away from the centre right of politics. He certainly doesnt look anywhere close to what Blair was.

I like what Im seeing in revealed policies so far:



They dont appear to be making unfunded commitments, right now.

I think its way too dangerous for working people and especially the working poor to have another 5 years of the tories.
 

sussexrob

Forum Patron
Patron
At this point I will be voting labour. My natural choice was the Greens as they were a lot further left than the labour party.

My reasoning:

I see in ed milliband a slight, albeit only slight a move away from the centre right of politics. He certainly doesnt look anywhere close to what Blair was.

I like what Im seeing in revealed policies so far:



They dont appear to be making unfunded commitments, right now.

I think its way too dangerous for working people and especially the working poor to have another 5 years of the tories.

You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.
 
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