Fracking

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First Team
MJB;n3405377 said:
Do some research and look for unbiased reports. Look at the factual safety record from the US, look at the amount of fracking and the extremely low level of incidents.
Alternatively look at the crucial issue of climate change and press for sustainable energy policies and investment from your Government rather than have them spend vast amounts of public money supporting fossil fuel corporations.
 

MJB

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26-0;n3405389 said:
Alternatively look at the crucial issue of climate change and press for sustainable energy policies and investment from your Government rather than have them spend vast amounts of public money supporting fossil fuel corporations.
I’m more than happy for sustainable energy sources to replace fossil fuels, the sooner the fucking better. And the government could be doing a better job. My previous job working for a Hydroelectric Turbine company showed me that much more needs to be done.

Where do you think this sustainable energy will come from? Unpopular onshore and offshore wind farms? Extremely unreliable and inefficient solar? The UKs geography means Hydro will never be able to provide enough? Tidal? Nowhere near. How about large scale earthquake causing geothermal drilling?

But until then what do we do about our gas demand? Continue to ship in countless high carbon footprint ships full of gas from the US?
 
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MJB

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Nobber;n3405381 said:
Why is it banned in so many countries then?
Not sure Nobber but if you’re that keen on the UK going it alone and fucking up relations and cooperation with our European neighbours, I would have thought you would like us to stand alone and be self sufficient.
 

Nobber

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MJB;n3405414 said:
Not sure Nobber but if you’re that keen on the UK going it alone and fucking up relations and cooperation with our European neighbours, I would have thought you would like us to stand alone and be self sufficient.
Self sufficiency at the cost of safety?

dont think so.
 

Regardless

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MJB;n3405377 said:
Do some research and look for unbiased reports. Look at the factual safety record from the US, look at the amount of fracking and the extremely low level of incidents.
Rubbish. Channel 4 put out an excellent animated documentary last Thursday teatime, that went into complete detail of fracking trials in the US city of Springfield.

It was clear that the elderly owner of the fracking company had no interest in safety whatsoever. Terrible earthquakes occurred, leading to mass collapse of hundreds of buildings, and the water supplies were badly contaminated.
 

MJB

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northender0602;n3405437 said:
What worries me is the by products, chemicals that are used and the water that is contaminated where does it all end up?
The vast majority is returned to the surface and removed for disposal at licensed disposal sites.
The make up of the fracking fluid used in the UK is pretty benign and is made up of harmless products used in everyday creams and lotions and a very dilute weak acid solution.
 

northender0602

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MJB;n3405462 said:
The vast majority is returned to the surface and removed for disposal at licensed disposal sites.
The make up of the fracking fluid used in the UK is pretty benign and is made up of harmless products used in everyday creams and lotions and a very dilute weak acid solution.
Where does it go after that is what I meant, after it’s been dealt with what happens to all the by products?, or is it just allowed to go back into the waterways after treatment.
 

Strongbow

First Team
Regardless;n3405428 said:
Rubbish. Channel 4 put out an excellent animated documentary last Thursday teatime, that went into complete detail of fracking trials in the US city of Springfield.

It was clear that the elderly owner of the fracking company had no interest in safety whatsoever. Terrible earthquakes occurred, leading to mass collapse of hundreds of buildings, and the water supplies were badly contaminated.
That was in The Simpsons movie wasn't it ?
 

MJB

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northender0602;n3405492 said:
Where does it go after that is what I meant, after it’s been dealt with what happens to all the by products?, or is it just allowed to go back into the waterways after treatment.
The "by-products" or waste is disposed of in different ways. Solids wastes are usually sent to the incinerator. If the solid waste in suitable it may go to landfill. Depending on what it is, liquid wastes are either neutralised and returned to the system, perfectly safely, which is then diluted and treated by the normal means at the Water Treatment Works. Other liquid wastes can then be incinerated.
 

MJB

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Regardless;n3405428 said:
Rubbish. Channel 4 put out an excellent animated documentary last Thursday teatime, that went into complete detail of fracking trials in the US city of Springfield.

It was clear that the elderly owner of the fracking company had no interest in safety whatsoever. Terrible earthquakes occurred, leading to mass collapse of hundreds of buildings, and the water supplies were badly contaminated.
Very good.

That Mr Burns is a charlatan isn't he....
 

northender0602

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MJB;n3405559 said:
The "by-products" or waste is disposed of in different ways. Solids wastes are usually sent to the incinerator. If the solid waste in suitable it may go to landfill. Depending on what it is, liquid wastes are either neutralised and returned to the system, perfectly safely, which is then diluted and treated by the normal means at the Water Treatment Works. Other liquid wastes can then be incinerated.
Cheers for that. :thumbsup:
 

Regardless

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Strongbow;n3405527 said:
That was in The Simpsons movie wasn't it ?
Nearly. It was actually a regular episode dedicated to fracking - first time showing on British tv last week.

MJB... interesting perspective. Not sure I want to take everything you say as 'black & white' but it's certainly very good to read your viewpoint and makes it worth investigating a bit further.
 

MJB

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Regardless;n3405722 said:
Nearly. It was actually a regular episode dedicated to fracking - first time showing on British tv last week.

MJB... interesting perspective. Not sure I want to take everything you say as 'black & white' but it's certainly very good to read your viewpoint and makes it worth investigating a bit further.

All I’m trying to do is counter the amount of lies and bullshit that comes from the Anti Fracking brigade. I’m no expert but I have a professional interest in numerous aspects of waste handling and in the oil and gas industry. I have read up on the process, the risks and the benefits and all I can say is, in my opinion, we should investigate the potential of Shale Gas safely. And from what I have seen and heard that’s what is happening.
 

26-0

First Team
MJB;n3405730 said:
All I’m trying to do is counter the amount of lies and bullshit that comes from the Anti Fracking brigade. I’m no expert but I have a professional interest in numerous aspects of waste handling and in the oil and gas industry. I have read up on the process, the risks and the benefits and all I can say is, in my opinion, we should investigate the potential of Shale Gas safely. And from what I have seen and heard that’s what is happening.
You're backing a dud.

There's no way that Fracking will take off on this tiny island. It clearly doesn't matter much to the Tory Government and the corporations looking for vast profits at any price but believe me the world is waking up at long last to the real threat to all the world's population of CLIMATE CHANGE. The young people of this country won't accept the older generations destroying THEIR world. There's no future in dirty old fossil fuels. As the great Bob Dylan said - the times they are changing.

(And was the collapse of a 1,000 ton section of Castle Rock near Keswick today exacerbated by the tremors triggered by Fracking in the adjacent county?)
 
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MJB

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26-0;n3405743 said:
You're backing a dud.

There's no way that Fracking will take off on this tiny island. It clearly doesn't matter much to the Tory Government and the corporations looking for vast profits at any price but believe me the world is waking up at long last to the real threat to all the world's population of CLIMATE CHANGE. The young people of this country won't accept the older generations destroying THEIR world. There's no future in dirty old fossil fuels. As the great Bob Dylan said - the times they are changing.

(And was the collapse of a 1,000 ton section of Castle Rock near Keswick today exacerbated by the tremors triggered by Fracking in the adjacent county?)
You have managed to avoid the point about having to ship in gas from the US and it’s huge carbon footprint numerous times. You have also got come up with a suitable alternative for our immediate gas demand issue. Neither have you acknowledged that the vast majority of us need to heat and cook.

Where do you want the magic gas to appear from?

And your last point about Castle Rock? That fuckwittery makes you fit in with the other antifracking, lying fuckwits.
 

26-0

First Team
MJB;n3405748 said:
You have managed to avoid the point about having to ship in gas from the US and it’s huge carbon footprint numerous times. You have also got come up with a suitable alternative for our immediate gas demand issue. Neither have you acknowledged that the vast majority of us need to heat and cook..
And your "suitable alternative" is fracking and the devastation of climate change! Really, that's the best you can come up with?

You seem like a f*ckin dinosaur to me.

I believe that today is the 10th anniversary of the Climate Change Act. Celebrate that and play your part to save yourself and your fellow citizens from the misery, poverty, starvation, death and destruction that climate change will bring and stop pushing the nonsense of new fossil fuel industries. Don't you feel that you owe that to our children and theirs?
 

MJB

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26-0;n3405809 said:
And your "suitable alternative" is fracking and the devastation of climate change! Really, that's the best you can come up with?

You seem like a f*ckin dinosaur to me.

I believe that today is the 10th anniversary of the Climate Change Act. Celebrate that and play your part to save yourself and your fellow citizens from the misery, poverty, starvation, death and destruction that climate change will bring and stop pushing the nonsense of new fossil fuel industries. Don't you feel that you owe that to our children and theirs?
You still cant answer can you? Come on, where do you think we should get our gas from? I know we need to phase it our but what about the interim period? Continue to ship it in on boats at a huge environmental cost? Or increase the amount of gas we get from Mr Putin and risk the continuity of supply?
 

PNEESSEX

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MJB;n3405850 said:
You still cant answer can you? Come on, where do you think we should get our gas from? I know we need to phase it our but what about the interim period? Continue to ship it in on boats at a huge environmental cost? Or increase the amount of gas we get from Mr Putin and risk the continuity of supply?
I don't know whether fracking is safe or not. However, I do know that arguing that we need fracking to survive is stretching the truth. It's instructive to look at the data which show where our gas supplies come from. In 2017 we imported 523,755 GWh of gas. Of that, 1,672GWh came from USA in LNG form and 1,016GWh from Russia. (That's 0.32% from USA and 0.19% from Russia) The bulk of our LNG comes from Qatar. The vast bulk of our gas comes by pipeline direct from either our own gas fields or from Norway.

As it happens, demand for gas is dropping in the UK both from domestic consumers and from the power generators. All of this needs to be factored into the debate on the justifications for fracking in the UK
 

Sepp Blatter

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PNEESSEX;n3405879 said:
I don't know whether fracking is safe or not. However, I do know that arguing that we need fracking to survive is stretching the truth. It's instructive to look at the data which show where our gas supplies come from. In 2017 we imported 523,755 GWh of gas. Of that, 1,672GWh came from USA in LNG form and 1,016GWh from Russia. (That's 0.32% from USA and 0.19% from Russia) The bulk of our LNG comes from Qatar. The vast bulk of our gas comes by pipeline direct from either our own gas fields or from Norway.

As it happens, demand for gas is dropping in the UK both from domestic consumers and from the power generators. All of this needs to be factored into the debate on the justifications for fracking in the UK
Interesting, thanks (good to see you back posting).

I agree with MJB that natural gas will help with the transition to renewables (realistically, the necessary technology/infrastructure are about 20 - 25 years away) - gas isn't my main area of expertise, so your figures are an interesting addition to the debate.

I still have many concerns about fracking - it is certainly something I would fight against here.
 
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