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Fracking

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sliper

sliper

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There is an adjacent subterranean area near & adjacent to this, in the area of the Fylde that straddles the estuary of the River Eyre:this formerly contained Rocksalt deposits, (now I believe are empty caverns,) where formerly Brine was pumped, until the 1980's The stuff was pumped-out from the Stalmine Area across to 'ICI Thornton' on the West Bank of the Wyre Estuary at Thornton. Stalmine has seen frequent 'slumpings' of whole farms & fields since this extraction process began in the 19thC.

Empty Caverns . History of Major Collapses. Next to ( & possible overlapping by? Dunno ! a proposed Shale Gas Extraction Area? Alarm Bells SHOULD be ringing...
---oOo---
Under the Fylde is a layer of Sandstone.
This Sandstone is water-bearing rock.
In the 1970's, and since, the NWWA has sank numerous pumps into this mass to extract this 'Groundwater'. They have actually taken as much so as to shut-down quite a few of these, because the Ground Water level has been lowered to that crucial point of depth. "Uh, the Well's run dry".

How do we know that Fracking waste water will not find it's way into these now empty/ but still porous volumes of Sandstone & seep & pollute the Remaining Volumes of (still) Water Bearing Sandstone ?

Betcha bottom dollar Mr Francis Egan hasn't been called upon to answer these two (rather troubling,imo) concerns.
Anyone else know owt?
If I was a resident of the Stalmine area, I'd seriously consider relocation.

Why are you referring to Stalmine when the salt mine "slumpings" were at Preesall ? (Genuine question)
 

noelpne

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This is where I am at. Renewables are the future and money should be pumped into research in these areas also. But, until you can make the wind blow all the time in the right areas at the right speed, or make the sun shine on demand, we are miles off meeting demand. In my previous job I worked in hydropower (hopefully this offsets my bad credit 😀) and although the industry is improving, we need the rain to fall on demand.
If anything is overlooked - it's Wave Power / Tidal Power.
(And I'm NOT taking into consideration those awful proposed Barrage Schemes like for example the ones across Morecambe Bay & (I think) near to Cardiff.)

Those machines that generate power in relation to Wave Motion. As long as there's waves , ( it's very unusual to be a "Millpond" out there, and The Doldrums aren't around this corner of the Planet ) and tides ( high & low twice/day as long as there's a Moon😏 )
Somehow, somehow, after getting these Gadgets working efficiently, they could theoretically, ahem 'splice' them into the same Offshore areas as where the Offshore Wind Farms are located.
This to me is the future, Snicky, this AND Hydrogen-Powered Vehicles.

---oOo---

Hydrogen Powered Vehicles ?😯😲

Isn't that like driving along with a fekin' BOMB behind you?
Well, there's Petrol, and then there's Petrol.
Highly Explosive, both Fuels. We know how to minimize the Petroleum risks, just as we would learn how to minimize the Hydrogen
risks.
 

Drunks

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I have many issues with Fracking, but one that never gets mentioned is the damage it does to planet earth on the inside.
They cause explosions 10,000 feet underground, that's almost 2 miles and we can feel it!!
If something explodes at Deepdale and you can feel it at the train station, that is one hell of an explosion.
Just because we cannot see the damage doesn't mean to say it hasn't happened, what damage this has long term for the planet will never be understood until it's too late.
It's a bit like putting smoke into the atmosphere, it's not a problem up there because we can't see it.
 

noelpne

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Why are you referring to Stalmine when the salt mine "slumpings" were at Preesall ? (Genuine question)
( Looking at my Ordnance Survey Sheet296, scale 2 & 1/2" to the mile map, all the Very Big Slumps are situated immediately (from about 600 metres) to the West/South West of Preesall village.
Stalmine is located just over a mile to the S.E. of Preesall village.To the West/North-West of Stalmine, about a mile away, there are some more large bodies of water, plus
the words 'Brine Wells' .
Halfway between the two villages lies an even smaller village called 'Pressall Park'.
Due West from there, ( the furthest of a pair of 2 more locations being very close to the actual Wyre Estuary itself ) are two more 'Brine Wells'. Thus making 3 such notations on my map.
The whole "Salty" area in this part of the Fylde seems to be represented on the Surface, over an area of about 1.5 miles by 0.75 miles. Dunno to what extent a Geological Map shows- ( I've never seen one ).
---oOo---
Down in Cheshire both adjoining 'Salty' towns of Northwich & Middlewich have had building subsidence problems over the years because of Void creation due to the extraction of the mineral.
 

Snicky

Hasa Diga Eebowai
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( Looking at my Ordnance Survey Sheet296, scale 2 & 1/2" to the mile map, all the Very Big Slumps are situated immediately (from about 600 metres) to the West/South West of Preesall village.
Stalmine is located just over a mile to the S.E. of Preesall village.To the West/North-West of Stalmine, about a mile away, there are some more large bodies of water, plus
the words 'Brine Wells' .
Halfway between the two villages lies an even smaller village called 'Pressall Park'.
Due West from there, ( the furthest of a pair of 2 more locations being very close to the actual Wyre Estuary itself ) are two more 'Brine Wells'. Thus making 3 such notations on my map.
The whole "Salty" area in this part of the Fylde seems to be represented on the Surface, over an area of about 1.5 miles by 0.75 miles. Dunno to what extent a Geological Map shows- ( I've never seen one ).
---oOo---
Down in Cheshire both adjoining 'Salty' towns of Northwich & Middlewich have had building subsidence problems over the years because of Void creation due to the extraction of the mineral.
The caverns in Cheshire are now used as underground gas storage facilities. Gas is pumped into the caverns under pressure and when demand is high, the gas is removed, cleaned and dried and put into the network.
They are currently adapting the old salt caverns in Presall and surrounding areas for the same purpose.
 

Snicky

Hasa Diga Eebowai
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If anything is overlooked - it's Wave Power / Tidal Power.
(And I'm NOT taking into consideration those awful proposed Barrage Schemes like for example the ones across Morecambe Bay & (I think) near to Cardiff.)

Those machines that generate power in relation to Wave Motion. As long as there's waves , ( it's very unusual to be a "Millpond" out there, and The Doldrums aren't around this corner of the Planet ) and tides ( high & low twice/day as long as there's a Moon😏 )
Somehow, somehow, after getting these Gadgets working efficiently, they could theoretically, ahem 'splice' them into the same Offshore areas as where the Offshore Wind Farms are located.
This to me is the future, Snicky, this AND Hydrogen-Powered Vehicles.

---oOo---

Hydrogen Powered Vehicles ?😯😲

Isn't that like driving along with a fekin' BOMB behind you?
Well, there's Petrol, and then there's Petrol.
Highly Explosive, both Fuels. We know how to minimize the Petroleum risks, just as we would learn how to minimize the Hydrogen
risks.
We touched on tidal power earlier, I’m not that up on it to be honest.

As for hydrogen power, I’m not sure it will scale down efficiently enough for smaller vehicles. There are mixed reports on its viability. In large scale industrial circumstances it is the future.
 

Soapy

Manager
The caverns in Cheshire are now used as underground gas storage facilities. Gas is pumped into the caverns under pressure and when demand is high, the gas is removed, cleaned and dried and put into the network.
They are currently adapting the old salt caverns in Presall and surrounding areas for the same purpose.
What's their storage capacity? In terms of national usage.
 

Regardless

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Less expensive? For who?

Everyone! Massive flood defences do cost billions. Clean up operations from hurricanes and floods. Wars that will be caused by people desperate for water because their lakes and rivers have dried up.... these will cost multibillions even before you begin to count the economic, environmental and social disasters associated with disappearing lakes, glaciers. etc etc.. I could go on with so much more... but you get the picture.
 

Sepp Blatter

Ursula Fanboy
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Everyone! Massive flood defences do cost billions. Clean up operations from hurricanes and floods. Wars that will be caused by people desperate for water because their lakes and rivers have dried up.... these will cost multibillions even before you begin to count the economic, environmental and social disasters associated with disappearing lakes, glaciers. etc etc.. I could go on with so much more... but you get the picture.
To be fair, I don't have an issue with moving as close towards zero emissions as we can and think it is a good goal. However, I am also concerned with the people who will try to gouge profits, exploit others, and play the system. There are vultures circling around the green movement - such is the nature of capitalism.
 

Regardless

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To be fair, I don't have an issue with moving as close towards zero emissions as we can and think it is a good goal. However, I am also concerned with the people who will try to gouge profits, exploit others, and play the system. There are vultures circling around the green movement - such is the nature of capitalism.

Not sure 'To be fair' is a fair opening to that . For sure, as with anything in life, the vultures will circle and systems abused. But that in no way supports Snicky's ridiculous (IMO) statement that net zero is unattainable and very expensive.

OK... it IS going to be very expensive ... but orders of magnitude cheaper than not achieving it.
 

outreacher

Respect Nature
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Not sure 'To be fair' is a fair opening to that . For sure, as with anything in life, the vultures will circle and systems abused. But that in no way supports Snicky's ridiculous (IMO) statement that net zero is unattainable and very expensive.

OK... it IS going to be very expensive ... but orders of magnitude cheaper than not achieving it.
How much do you think it would cost to insulate every home in Britain, would it be something in the region, of Government borrowing to finance the tax-concessions given yesterday to the one percent? The benefits of the insulation for less gas used on heating, less fossil fuel required. The tax concessions for the rich, benefits unknown, will it help in tackling the energy problems?

Yesterday, enough money lost from the economy would probably advance, the aims towards net-zero massively. Just by investing money where it should, be going. I have seen various figure reported on how much the mini-budget will cost, between 45 and 75 billion.
 
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Sepp Blatter

Ursula Fanboy
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Not sure 'To be fair' is a fair opening to that . For sure, as with anything in life, the vultures will circle and systems abused. But that in no way supports Snicky's ridiculous (IMO) statement that net zero is unattainable and very expensive.

OK... it IS going to be very expensive ... but orders of magnitude cheaper than not achieving it.
To clarify - I don't have an issue with going for net zero, and think that we are moving in that direction - certainly in terms of technology. However, there are many, many people trying to exploit the system, It is very important not to become so fixated on net zero that we ignore the parasites.

Just as an example - the carbon credit system makes CO2 a commodity to be traded on the open market, with the resulting short term thinking and people skimming profit without doing anything constructive. Carbon offsetting has already seen some 'creative accounting.' I am not going to get carried away on a net zero trip without looking very closely into the details.

Don't think that net zero is actually achievable - but, it is a target and getting as close to it as possible is the key. Plus, as I said before, it is crucial not to become so fixated on net zero that we ignore other environmental issues. Encouraging salt marshes or planting trees at the head of rivers rarely count towards net zero targets - but we should be encouraging such innovation.
 

Portishead

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To clarify - I don't have an issue with going for net zero, and think that we are moving in that direction - certainly in terms of technology. However, there are many, many people trying to exploit the system, It is very important not to become so fixated on net zero that we ignore the parasites.

Just as an example - the carbon credit system makes CO2 a commodity to be traded on the open market, with the resulting short term thinking and people skimming profit without doing anything constructive. Carbon offsetting has already seen some 'creative accounting.' I am not going to get carried away on a net zero trip without looking very closely into the details.

Don't think that net zero is actually achievable - but, it is a target and getting as close to it as possible is the key. Plus, as I said before, it is crucial not to become so fixated on net zero that we ignore other environmental issues. Encouraging salt marshes or planting trees at the head of rivers rarely count towards net zero targets - but we should be encouraging such innovation.

I guess the answer is not to attack the net zero aim but to tackle the circling vultures. Trouble is this lot are rearing and feeding them.
 
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