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sports rehab

Advisor to the Owner
Not for the first time this season either.

Nothing against the lad personally but he isnt cut out for this level
I agree with JK - he should have stood off as the box approached and let Rudd attempt to save - better 1 down with 11 than 10. POOR not too.

Whether Raff is good enough for the Champ is a fair question, but I dont think he has cost us many goals at RB - no more than other RB's - and it was his tackle that created our 1st at Reading from LB.

at least now we are missing Hughes a bit !
 

Baldygit

Forum Patron
Patron
The truth is that it really didn't matter how many players we had on the field - we were crap from the first whistle - mainly due to ANs tactics but also no Plan B when Rovers outplayed and outthought his Master Plan
 

Simply Sage

First Team
40 seconds is where he should bring him down. Take the yellow.
Like I said above. it's OK saying he should have hauled him down on the halfway line (and definitely been sent off) when you know what transpires afterwards.

How is he to know - at that time - that that attacker is successfully going to cover 50 yards from within his own half, under his challenge, at pace, and get a shot past Rudd? There is still lots for the attacker to do when the pass comes through.

To haul him down on the halfway line when there is still a high likelihood that he won't score from that position would be crazy.

There are even comments on here that he should have let the player go and have a free shot at Rudd. I can only imagine what some on here would have said to that if he had scored.

He tried to balance the risks, the attacker held him off well and only took a dive once he got in the box. But Rafferty was trying to bring him down before that.

Thats what I think we would expect any player to do in that position.

It's a perfect pass to the attacker and he's fast. Sometimes the other team just score a good goal.
 

paddysr

Bearded Beauty
Staff member
Patron
Like I said above. it's OK saying he should have hauled him down on the halfway line (and definitely been sent off) when you know what transpires afterwards.

How is he to know - at that time - that that attacker is successfully going to cover 50 yards from within his own half, under his challenge, at pace, and get a shot past Rudd? There is still lots for the attacker to do when the pass comes through.

To haul him down on the halfway line when there is still a high likelihood that he won't score from that position would be crazy.

There are even comments on here that he should have let the player go and have a free shot at Rudd. I can only imagine what some on here would have said to that if he had scored.

He tried to balance the risks, the attacker held him off well and only took a dive once he got in the box. But Rafferty was trying to bring him down before that.

Thats what I think we would expect any player to do in that position.

It's a perfect pass to the attacker and he's fast. Sometimes the other team just score a good goal.
He wouldn't have been sent off at the half way line.
 

Simply Sage

First Team
He wouldn't have been sent off at the half way line.
If you look at the play he's the last man. There is no cover that is going to reach the attacker before he gets into a shooting position. The referee would see that as soon as he blew the whistle.

The Law includes this in terms of an offence that warrants a sending off;
  • denying a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity to an opponent whose overall movement is towards the offender's goal by an offence punishable by a free kick (unless as outlined below)
Like I said he was the last man.

Your assertion that it would have been a Yellow card is your opinion. You don't seem to realise that if you are making the point that hauling him down at that point would be the best thing to stop a clear goal-scoring opportunity - then surely the referee would be reaching the same conclusion - and sending him off.
 

paddysr

Bearded Beauty
Staff member
Patron
If you look at the play he's the last man. There is no cover that is going to reach the attacker before he gets into a shooting position. The referee would see that as soon as he blew the whistle.

The Law includes this in terms of an offence that warrants a sending off;
  • denying a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity to an opponent whose overall movement is towards the offender's goal by an offence punishable by a free kick (unless as outlined below)
Like I said he was the last man.

Your assertion that it would have been a Yellow card is your opinion. You don't seem to realise that if you are making the point that hauling him down at that point would be the best thing to stop a clear goal-scoring opportunity - then surely the referee would be reaching the same conclusion - and sending him off.
It isnt a goal scoring opportunity at that point.
 

JK

The Big Boss
Staff member
Patron
If you look at the play he's the last man. There is no cover that is going to reach the attacker before he gets into a shooting position. The referee would see that as soon as he blew the whistle.

The Law includes this in terms of an offence that warrants a sending off;
  • denying a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity to an opponent whose overall movement is towards the offender's goal by an offence punishable by a free kick (unless as outlined below)
Like I said he was the last man.

Your assertion that it would have been a Yellow card is your opinion. You don't seem to realise that if you are making the point that hauling him down at that point would be the best thing to stop a clear goal-scoring opportunity - then surely the referee would be reaching the same conclusion - and sending him off.

Find me one player who has ever been given a straight red card for a trip or shirt pull on the half way line.
 

JJ_PNE

Manager
If you look at the play he's the last man. There is no cover that is going to reach the attacker before he gets into a shooting position. The referee would see that as soon as he blew the whistle.

The Law includes this in terms of an offence that warrants a sending off;
  • denying a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity to an opponent whose overall movement is towards the offender's goal by an offence punishable by a free kick (unless as outlined below)
Like I said he was the last man.

Your assertion that it would have been a Yellow card is your opinion. You don't seem to realise that if you are making the point that hauling him down at that point would be the best thing to stop a clear goal-scoring opportunity - then surely the referee would be reaching the same conclusion - and sending him off.
I agree with the rules and it should be a red further back but not many Refs would issue a Red there, seen it issued as a yellow plenty of times.
 

sedgwick__7

Advisor to the Owner
It's a perfect pass to the attacker and he's fast. Sometimes the other team just score a good goal.
This is true, but ignoring Rafferty for a moment, these types of goals aren't just happening "sometimes". How many times have we been done on the counter so far this season ? It's an ongoing theme and something the manager is really struggling to fix.
 

Simply Sage

First Team
It isnt a goal scoring opportunity at that point.
It's a matter of interpretation on the referee's part.

But if the view of some PNE fans suggests it's worth a getting Yellow for because we think a goal could well be scored - then the referees mind is likely to follow the same logic. Which means a red comes into the reckoning. He was the last man - the rules don't say "but if you are on the halfway line it won't be a red."

Of course Rafferty has to assess all of this in a fraction of a second, not having eyes in the back of his head and without fully knowing what the ability of any covering defenders are to assist. We have the benefit of a camera in the stands and as many watches of the video we need.

There is much wisdom in hindsight.
 

Simply Sage

First Team
This is true, but ignoring Rafferty for a moment, these types of goals aren't just happening "sometimes". How many times have we been done on the counter so far this season ? It's an ongoing theme and something the manager is really struggling to fix.
Yes you are right. This not far from the team that topped the league this time last year. It's beyond puzzling.

On this issue, I won't defend someone where there is a woeful ticket (Rafferty at the end of last season - Brentford? Not sure) I'll just not post. But I don't like it when the player that is nearest the incident simply gets the blame without any considered analysis on whether it was an error (on his or anyone else's part) or he was just the unfortunate one to be involved in the play.

So much crap gets put on by people who just don't like certain players and who are always there to capitalise on any 'errors' - whether they were actually errors or not.
 

Simply Sage

First Team
Yes you are right. This not far from the team that topped the league this time last year. It's beyond puzzling.

On this issue, I won't defend someone where there is a woeful ticket (Rafferty at the end of last season - Brentford? Not sure) I'll just not post. But I don't like it when the player that is nearest the incident simply gets the blame without any considered analysis on whether it was an error (on his or anyone else's part) or he was just the unfortunate one to be involved in the play.

So much crap gets put on by people who just don't like certain players and who are always there to capitalise on any 'errors' - whether they were actually errors or not.
Ticket not ticket.
 

Mr Meeseeks

Forum Patron
Patron
It's a matter of interpretation on the referee's part.

But if the view of some PNE fans suggests it's worth a getting Yellow for because we think a goal could well be scored - then the referees mind is likely to follow the same logic. Which means a red comes into the reckoning. He was the last man - the rules don't say "but if you are on the halfway line it won't be a red."

Of course Rafferty has to assess all of this in a fraction of a second, not having eyes in the back of his head and without fully knowing what the ability of any covering defenders are to assist. We have the benefit of a camera in the stands and as many watches of the video we need.

There is much wisdom in hindsight.
The difference is that on the way halfway line Rafferty had the opportunity to make a genuine attempt for the ball.

Once behind Gallagher, he can only bring him down and make no attempt. Thus a red card. That said most refs wouldn’t issue a red that close to the halfway line.

Making a slide tackle attempt for the ball, missing and taking out Gallagher would be a yellow due to being nowhere near the box and eliminating double jeopardy by the fact he attempted to play the ball.
 

Simply Sage

First Team
The difference is that on the way halfway line Rafferty had the opportunity to make a genuine attempt for the ball.

Once behind Gallagher, he can only bring him down and make no attempt. Thus a red card. That said most refs wouldn’t issue a red that close to the halfway line.

Making a slide tackle attempt for the ball, missing and taking out Gallagher would be a yellow due to being nowhere near the box and eliminating double jeopardy by the fact he attempted to play the ball.
Don't agree with the first sentence - he wasn't close enough to make a reasonable legal, challenge for the ball.
 

Mr Meeseeks

Forum Patron
Patron
Don't agree with the first sentence - he wasn't close enough to make a reasonable legal, challenge for the ball.
For me he does, at the point below he is ahead of Gallagher and well within reasonable distance to slide, even if he misses the ball he takes out Gallagher and it's a yellow. He even has the argument of Hunts at the top as cover to stop a red (even though we all know he isn't really getting back in time).

After this moment when Gallagher gets slightly ahead, he still has enough sight of the ball and distance from the penalty area to make a 'legitimate' slide tackle to prevent the break and a red card.

It was all too naive, he knows right after the moment below he's lost the foot race, why let it carry on into the penalty box when Gallagher is ahead of him and touch tight? Absolute madness.

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sports rehab

Advisor to the Owner
Had he been playing RB in the same situation I am sure he would have slide tackled it out of play with his right foot,....as I'm sure Hughes or Earl would have tried to if they were in this situation wit their left foot..
More worrying is the fact he was out paced from here in.....
 
Like I said above. it's OK saying he should have hauled him down on the halfway line (and definitely been sent off) when you know what transpires afterwards.

How is he to know - at that time - that that attacker is successfully going to cover 50 yards from within his own half, under his challenge, at pace, and get a shot past Rudd? There is still lots for the attacker to do when the pass comes through.

To haul him down on the halfway line when there is still a high likelihood that he won't score from that position would be crazy.

There are even comments on here that he should have let the player go and have a free shot at Rudd. I can only imagine what some on here would have said to that if he had scored.

He tried to balance the risks, the attacker held him off well and only took a dive once he got in the box. But Rafferty was trying to bring him down before that.

Thats what I think we would expect any player to do in that position.

It's a perfect pass to the attacker and he's fast. Sometimes the other team just score a good goal.

If that was a Man City defender, he'd have body checked him on the half way line and taken the likely booking, but the more likely outcome would have been that someone else would have bodychecked a player before the ball got to him and the attack would have been stopped with a free kick and nothing else. It's about sniffing danger and we seem to have gone from lunging in and getting red cards to just leaving them to run through, especially if Pearo isn't playing. That said, it was a definite dive (he brought his arm across Rafferty and pulled him in) and who can blame him? Rovers have promotion form against 10 men this season (P4 W3 D1) and relegation form against 11 (P9 W2 D2 L5). For fairness sake they were 3-0 up against Wycombe when they went down to 10, but all the others were at 0-0 when the opposition went down to 10.
 
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