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Hemmings family - time to go?

Hemmings family - time to go?


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Keeper1

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Should be a wage cap, maximum wage for footballers in 1960 was £20 a week, average pay for people was £14 a week, something went wrong somewhere, Sky I suppose.

”How Jimmy Hill's Strike Threat Turned £20 Footballers Into Multi-Millionaires”
thesportsman.com 18/01/21

 

Wisemen say

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I've no idea what we offered those players wages wise. Or how serious we were in the offers. But, I think it would have been under the understanding (at certain levels of the heirachy) that Riis would have to be sold to pay for it all.

In August when all our other targets had fell away, we were left with the option of selling Riis but buying no one. Something that no doubt would have excited some of the Hemmings clan.

If we are aiming for self sufficiency (and a cost neutral future) then a £10m+ wage bill would be the aim i.e. a 9k average player wage which many of the current squad could be accommodated on.

We can still have the odd Woodman. As long as we have the odd Olosunde type to bring down that overall wage budget. Next summer when 10 more players are out of contract including the costly DJ, we will be another step closer.

One reason we are dealing almost exclusively in short term one year deals is that we could soon switch to a £10m+ budget instantaneously if we so desired.
Do you think this plan and wage structure would sustain our Championship status going forward and long term.?
 

Dreyfuss

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Do you think this plan and wage structure would sustain our Championship status going forward and long term.?
Well obviously not. That's why it has to be bolstered by player sales. I think the Hemmings (or certainly some of the mob) would have preferred to sell Riis for what ever Boro offered immediately.

That sale will be necessary in the next 12+ months regardless, to decrease the financial input required from our overlords. They won't be putting in £12m this season. Or next season. Or any season that doesn't involve a pandemic.

The Hemmings will have one eye on the new FFP switch to sustainability on the horizon. When exactly that big change will happen is unclear. But we seem to preparing for it. Or preparing for the possibility of relegation. Or both.

The big problem we have is we don't have many players worth much. Certainly not more than we paid for them. And the guys we have in contract for 2023/24 are generally ageing / on the decline.

We do have Riis, Woodman, Whiteman & McCaan. (Storey at a push) But, other than those there is just not a great deal of transfer value in the squad.

I guess that's why we are throwing around pro deals to the gaggle of youths. Hoping they come good. I'm not convinced the youth alliance league or non league loans are the right platform for real progress.
 

Wisemen say

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Well obviously not. That's why it has to be bolstered by player sales. I think the Hemmings (or certainly some of the mob) would have preferred to sell Riis for what ever Boro offered immediately.

That sale will be necessary in the next 12+ months regardless, to decrease the financial input required from our overlords. They won't be putting in £12m this season. Or next season. Or any season that doesn't involve a pandemic.

The Hemmings will have one eye on the new FFP switch to sustainability on the horizon. When exactly that big change will happen is unclear. But we seem to preparing for it. Or preparing for the possibility of relegation. Or both.

The big problem we have is we don't have many players worth much. Certainly not more than we paid for them. And the guys we have in contract for 2023/24 are generally ageing / on the decline.

We do have Riis, Woodman, Whiteman & McCaan. (Storey at a push) But, other than those there is just not a great deal of transfer value in the squad.

I guess that's why we are throwing around pro deals to the gaggle of youths. Hoping they come good. I'm not convinced the youth alliance league or non league loans are the right platform for real progress.
Agree we have few players of a great saleable value, getting our youth players loans at the low level we seem able to get them game time does not seem to be. at a sufficient standard or level to move them forward to championship level. 🤔
 

Dreyfuss

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Agree we have few players of a great saleable value, getting our youth players loans at the low level we seem able to get them game time does not seem to be. at a sufficient standard or level to move them forward to championship level. 🤔
Many lower league teams have their own academies of a similar or better standard to ours (some L2 teams have Cat 2 status). So it's no surprise our kids are not in high demand from EFL clubs.

We just gotta hope this most recent batch of kids come good. We are certainly handing out enough deals. But until one starts a league game I remain fairly unconvinced.

Ultimately the best kids want to be playing against better opposition than Wrexham in the central league cup. I believe Wrexham's academy is funded largely by parents.
 

Wisemen say

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Many lower league teams have their own academies of a similar or better standard to ours (some L2 teams have Cat 2 status). So it's no surprise our kids are not in high demand from EFL clubs.

We just gotta hope this most recent batch of kids come good. We are certainly handing out enough deals. But until one starts a league game I remain fairly unconvinced.

Ultimately the best kids want to be playing against better opposition than Wrexham in the central league cup. I believe Wrexham's academy is funded largely by parents.
The fact we got beat and did not score is not exactly convincing either about the level and standard we are at. 🤔
 

Thewhites.

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This might have been the case for your employer's client, Mr. Kirchner , (did he ever pay them for your work- intrigued to know ;) ) but it is not necessarily the way any future deal has to be structured. It entirely depends on the circumstances. The company that matters is PNE FC Ltd - that is the company with the EFL registration ,and that is the company that has to comply with FFP. It has no debt, internal or external, of significance. It just has massive issued share capital. It is owned by PNE Ltd, which similarly has no debt internal or external of significance but massive share capital.

I am on record as saying there is no value at all in the business as long as it continues as a football club, and I stand by that. The assets in use are of no value because the revenue streams they help generate make a massive loss. They are only of value in the hands of a property speculator who could decide to abandon football as the company activity and exploit the property assets. Bye- bye PNE.

I reckon over the past 20 years there have been maybe 200 different owners of football clubs in the league structure and I would say only a handful have come out of it with a cash surplus (even the Oystons lost in the end). Anyone who looks on buying a football club for some sort of profit is either a mug or a crook- and not many billionaires are the former. And trading for profit is not the same as mitigating losses ( which is sadly where PNE are heading I am sure) before people come on about cost cutting.

We might find that new billionaire , or even a meagre mega-multi millionaire, owner ( I have checked who is in all the exec boxes and sadly only one set of occupiers fit the bill - but maybe there is one sat on the Town End ? :)).

An alternative outcome is a consortium of local business people take over (happened in the 70s) and they could do this by injecting cash via shares in to PNE Ltd thus massively diluting the Hemmings family and making sure their cash stays to fund the club. There is therefore no need to involve Deepdale PNE Holdings and whatever internal debt that company has remains as such. It has no impact on the club. Whether these new owners, even in tandem, get together enough cash to build and fund an academy, fund £6m contracts for strikers and whatever else fans want, as well as support the current losses , I would doubt. But we will get whatever we get.

Sorry to bore those of you with no interest in this side of it- I have done my fair share of these types of deal (on a much smaller scale) so you pick these things up with experience and listening to the lawyers and accountants:)
This conversation probably belongs on the ‘Hemmings’ statement thread now, so mods please feel free to move. I doubt Kirchner has paid anyone since the Derby deal died but I’m not and never have been engaged by him directly or indirectly, think you have me confused with someone else 😉

Anyway, the statement. I can’t really think of anything of any significance and as ever it doesn’t in any way comprise a business plan or strategy. Cut every cost in sight and we want out with the minimum possible further damage is essentially the message from the ownership, while insulting the customers (fans) with the reference to Ingol and the admission that the insinuation that ‘the shackles are off’ was misleading at best. The shackles may well have been taken off but they had already been replaced by tighter more painful shackles.

An individual i occasionally work with has suggested to me that the total budget (in cash terms) within which PR must operate is circa £16m. Sounds on the low side to me but, if true, and I have no reason to doubt this individual, we really are operating on a shoe string and the ownership are looking at putting maybe £3m in themselves. Someone may well have direct knowledge of the number as opposed to my second hand information but worrying if true.
 

Final Stand

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This conversation probably belongs on the ‘Hemmings’ statement thread now, so mods please feel free to move. I doubt Kirchner has paid anyone since the Derby deal died but I’m not and never have been engaged by him directly or indirectly, think you have me confused with someone else 😉

Anyway, the statement. I can’t really think of anything of any significance and as ever it doesn’t in any way comprise a business plan or strategy. Cut every cost in sight and we want out with the minimum possible further damage is essentially the message from the ownership, while insulting the customers (fans) with the reference to Ingol and the admission that the insinuation that ‘the shackles are off’ was misleading at best. The shackles may well have been taken off but they had already been replaced by tighter more painful shackles.

An individual i occasionally work with has suggested to me that the total budget (in cash terms) within which PR must operate is circa £16m. Sounds on the low side to me but, if true, and I have no reason to doubt this individual, we really are operating on a shoe string and the ownership are looking at putting maybe £3m in themselves. Someone may well have direct knowledge of the number as opposed to my second hand information but worrying if true.

“Shackles are off” didn’t come from the club !
 

Thracia

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“Shackles are off” didn’t come from the club !
But the insinuation did.

"The shackles are off" is now shorthand for all the spin and hype we were subjected to from February onwards, from Lowe himself in the main, but subsequently also from Ridsdale in May, that something fundamental had changed, and that targets that were previously completely unobtainable were suddenly obtainable, especially if the fans Played Their Part.
 

Tugg Speedman

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I presume 'Serpico' who wanted to 'invest' 12 million on players in the comments section is the fabled Voldemort :)

Yeah initials AW - everyone knows who he is. He always drops bits of 'info' like this to tease. And as if knowing the existence of Michael Platt gives him credibility?

If there was any truth in this comment, it will come to light sooner or later.
 

Mr Meeseeks

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Nixon has a story on us tomorrow.

Imagine at this point of the season it’s either a free transfer, which I can’t see or potential new ownership.

Could even be the young Irish lad from Cork that a few Prem and Champ sides seem to be chasing, Franco Umeh.

But I have heard slight whispers of a potential takeover from different people.
 

northend nevets

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Nixon has a story on us tomorrow.

Imagine at this point of the season it’s either a free transfer, which I can’t see or potential new ownership.

Could even be the young Irish lad from Cork that a few Prem and Champ sides seem to be chasing, Franco Umeh.

But I have heard slight whispers of a potential takeover from different people.
It's Nixon for petes sake. Probably doing an article on how shit our catering is a deepdale.

Either that or an article on how Middlesbrough have missed out on Riis but are looking at another bid on Jan.
 

Bobbage

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Nixon has a story on us tomorrow.

Imagine at this point of the season it’s either a free transfer, which I can’t see or potential new ownership.

Could even be the young Irish lad from Cork that a few Prem and Champ sides seem to be chasing, Franco Umeh.

But I have heard slight whispers of a potential takeover from different people.

Bennett loan cancelled?
 

Tugg Speedman

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Nixon has a story on us tomorrow.

Imagine at this point of the season it’s either a free transfer, which I can’t see or potential new ownership.

Could even be the young Irish lad from Cork that a few Prem and Champ sides seem to be chasing, Franco Umeh.

But I have heard slight whispers of a potential takeover from different people.

Hope so.

I'm pissed off and like many fans I'm feeling like i was conned into buying a season ticket, by Lowe's false advertising of his 'style' of football and by Ridsdale & the boards suggestions of investing more in the playing staff.
 
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