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How the media works

Mancunian White

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Yup - although people shouldn't read too much into the dollar vs pound. When oil and gas prices rise, the dollar gets stronger because it is the reserve currency - nothing anybody can do about that unless the BRICS or somebody else starts trading oil/gas in a different currency.

My criticism of the BoE (and other central banks) is that they went down the very low interest rates/Quantitative Easing route after the financial crisis and kicked the can down the road. Now it is time to pay the piper. Although, to be fair, politicians who refused to make any meaningful changes to the financial system and economy should take the bulk of the blame. We papered over the cracks.
I think it was very hard for the BofE to do anything else, tbh. Since the GFC, it's been pretty clear that the economy is basically held up by housing, and returning to the pre-2008 consensus of ~5% interest rates would've demolished it. They're "independent" in a loose sense. They still need to work with the government, and a decade of pathetic growth meant they couldn't increase rates without tanking demand and plunging homeowners into negative equity again.

The Bank of England hasn't been hawkish enough, but it's been pathetic economic performance caused by poor economic policy since 2008 that's caused this.
 

Sepp Blatter

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I think it was very hard for the BofE to do anything else, tbh. Since the GFC, it's been pretty clear that the economy is basically held up by housing, and returning to the pre-2008 consensus of ~5% interest rates would've demolished it. They're "independent" in a loose sense. They still need to work with the government, and a decade of pathetic growth meant they couldn't increase rates without tanking demand and plunging homeowners into negative equity again.

The Bank of England hasn't been hawkish enough, but it's been pathetic economic performance caused by poor economic policy since 2008 that's caused this.
Agree with that - and it was the same on this side of the water. Politicians fixated on austerity and cuts created damage that central banks couldn't do much about. I am not a fan of Draghi, but he was right to call them out on it, several times.

To keep this media-related on this thread, the media in the UK and EU used to piss me off no end by talking about economics as if it was a household budget, repeating the BS spouted by the politicians and ultimately enabling them. Seem to remember it used to drive PNEESSEX mad, too!
 

Mancunian White

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Agree with that - and it was the same on this side of the water. Politicians fixated on austerity and cuts created damage that central banks couldn't do much about. I am not a fan of Draghi, but he was right to call them out on it, several times.

To keep this media-related on this thread, the media in the UK and EU used to piss me off no end by talking about economics as if it was a household budget, repeating the BS spouted by the politicians and ultimately enabling them. Seem to remember it used to drive PNEESSEX mad, too!
Have you read "Manufacturing Consent" by Herman and Chomsky? Interesting read on how the press creates support for ideological institutions in this way.
 

Sepp Blatter

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Have you read "Manufacturing Consent" by Herman and Chomsky? Interesting read on how the press creates support for ideological institutions in this way.
Yup - one of my favourite books!

Reminds me of this old joke:

A Russian and an American get on a plane in Moscow and get talking.

The Russian says he works for the Kremlin and he's on his way to learn American propaganda techniques.

"What American propaganda techniques?" asks the American.

"Exactly," the Russian replies.
 

Took My Heart

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Have you read "Manufacturing Consent" by Herman and Chomsky? Interesting read on how the press creates support for ideological institutions in this way.
Chomsky has lost the plot a bit in later years but Manufacturing Consent is a really important book that is still very relevant today.

If this thread had a reading list it would be right at the top for me.
 

noelpne

Advisor to the Owner
Fb7WSsXXEAAlF-o
The Express would ask us to put our faith in Darth Vader , if he ever became the Leader of the Conservative Party.

I suppose that would mean
free 'Vicks' from the NHS.
 

Mancunian White

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Chomsky has lost the plot a bit in later years but Manufacturing Consent is a really important book that is still very relevant today.

If this thread had a reading list it would be right at the top for me.
I still think Chomsky has a lot of valuable stuff to say, but yes, Manufacturing Consent is one of the books I'd recommend anyone read.

Yup - one of my favourite books!

Reminds me of this old joke:

A Russian and an American get on a plane in Moscow and get talking.

The Russian says he works for the Kremlin and he's on his way to learn American propaganda techniques.

"What American propaganda techniques?" asks the American.

"Exactly," the Russian replies.
Great taste as always Sepp. I've probably bought and gifted it a dozen times by now.
 

Took My Heart

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Yup - one of my favourite books!

Reminds me of this old joke:

A Russian and an American get on a plane in Moscow and get talking.

The Russian says he works for the Kremlin and he's on his way to learn American propaganda techniques.

"What American propaganda techniques?" asks the American.

"Exactly," the Russian replies.
Was thinking about how the news presented the 'pro-annexation' rally in Russia.

There was language about the 'supposed' nature of the rally, they showed people not wanting to talk to the BBC as a lack of enthusiasm for the rally or being afraid to talk (I wonder why Russians at a pro-Russia rally might not want to talk to British journalists...)

Then they had a clip of woman who said she'd prefer her son to die fighting for Russia in Ukraine rather than die of alcoholism in Russia. How many people did they ask to get the quote of the 'crazy Russian who in a sentence others the nation as a people of hopeless bloodthirsty pissed up maniacs'.

I don't for one second think there isn't widespread opposition to the war in Russia but I don't find it inconceivable that a pro war rally could attract a sizeable number in Moscow either.

The framing had so many value judgements it was untrue.

Back home the coverage of the tax cuts appeared to be 'balanced' interviewing people struggling as well as soundbites from people happy BUT there has been widespread criticism of these plans across political spectrums. By 'balancing' they legitimise decisions that possibly don't have wide support. That's my view of course, but I noticed a few other things too...

When the 'cost' of tax cuts and borrowing was mentioned, there was NO discussion of what that may mean for public service delivery - that's road's, social care, police, defence, civil service, health, education etc. All public services that have had a generation of funding cuts with fewer and fewer options to save money. This impacts all of us.

BBCs graph to show the level of the tax savings was presented in a bar graph with five income bands given equal prominence. Sure it showed the wealthy benefitting most by a long way, but only 10% of the population were represented by the three upper income bars. Reading that graph you're eye could easily interpret it as 60%.

When talking about the tax cuts there was no discussion about the impact of interest rate rises or energy and food rises - disproportionately felt by those who benefit least from the tax cuts. The tax cut was treated in isolation from everything else going on.

I am not necessarily sticking it to the BBC and am definitely not pro-Russia but what Chomsky was writing about a long time ago still matters. How stories are framed and what is omitted and included is a massive part of soft propaganda and maintaining acceptable establishment narratives.
 

Sepp Blatter

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Was thinking about how the news presented the 'pro-annexation' rally in Russia.

There was language about the 'supposed' nature of the rally, they showed people not wanting to talk to the BBC as a lack of enthusiasm for the rally or being afraid to talk (I wonder why Russians at a pro-Russia rally might not want to talk to British journalists...)

Then they had a clip of woman who said she'd prefer her son to die fighting for Russia in Ukraine rather than die of alcoholism in Russia. How many people did they ask to get the quote of the 'crazy Russian who in a sentence others the nation as a people of hopeless bloodthirsty pissed up maniacs'.

I don't for one second think there isn't widespread opposition to the war in Russia but I don't find it inconceivable that a pro war rally could attract a sizeable number in Moscow either.

The framing had so many value judgements it was untrue.

Back home the coverage of the tax cuts appeared to be 'balanced' interviewing people struggling as well as soundbites from people happy BUT there has been widespread criticism of these plans across political spectrums. By 'balancing' they legitimise decisions that possibly don't have wide support. That's my view of course, but I noticed a few other things too...

When the 'cost' of tax cuts and borrowing was mentioned, there was NO discussion of what that may mean for public service delivery - that's road's, social care, police, defence, civil service, health, education etc. All public services that have had a generation of funding cuts with fewer and fewer options to save money. This impacts all of us.

BBCs graph to show the level of the tax savings was presented in a bar graph with five income bands given equal prominence. Sure it showed the wealthy benefitting most by a long way, but only 10% of the population were represented by the three upper income bars. Reading that graph you're eye could easily interpret it as 60%.

When talking about the tax cuts there was no discussion about the impact of interest rate rises or energy and food rises - disproportionately felt by those who benefit least from the tax cuts. The tax cut was treated in isolation from everything else going on.

I am not necessarily sticking it to the BBC and am definitely not pro-Russia but what Chomsky was writing about a long time ago still matters. How stories are framed and what is omitted and included is a massive part of soft propaganda and maintaining acceptable establishment narratives.
Yup - studying propaganda, especially the linguistic side, is a hobby of mine. Picking through the western propaganda during the Syrian conflict was a lesson in itself, watching how governments manipulate and misguide populations.

Covid even more so - they actually admitted that they were doing it, and we saw them really start to put pressure on companies and media to censor certain views.
 

Mancunian White

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Agree with that - and it was the same on this side of the water. Politicians fixated on austerity and cuts created damage that central banks couldn't do much about. I am not a fan of Draghi, but he was right to call them out on it, several times.

To keep this media-related on this thread, the media in the UK and EU used to piss me off no end by talking about economics as if it was a household budget, repeating the BS spouted by the politicians and ultimately enabling them. Seem to remember it used to drive PNEESSEX mad, too!
What's your opinion on Varoufakis, out of interest?
 

Sepp Blatter

Political Groupie
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What's your opinion on Varoufakis, out of interest?
I have a lot of time for Yannis - pretty much everything he says in his critique of capitalism, especially neo-liberalism, proved to be correct. He was also right in his criticisms of the EU austerity packages and the political, social, and economic damage they would cause.

His exposure of the EU's lies and obfuscations was excellent, too - he caught them red handed. Don't know if you have read Adults in the Room, but it is a great read.

Probably more on the economics than the media side, but Mark Blyth is worth checking out. Another voice that is rarely listened to but is often spot on with his observations.
 
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