Is it time for Hemmings to finally go?

Kathryn

Advisor to the Owner
I consider AFC Fylde to be a Preston offshoot. There are parts of Preston where it's faster to get there than Deepdale!

Also Springfields is now in Fylde.
Fylde parliamentary constituency, not Fylde Borough. Not the same. Parts of Preston come under Ribble Valley Constituency.
 

dawsonsjs

Reserve
Trundle..just read your post.

North End has sold its best players ever since the scrapping of the max wage in the early 60s. There is no option on two accounts:
- you can not stop players from moving if that's what they want......Finney would have gone to Roma had his contract allowed in those days but times have changed. Theoretically you could hold a player to the remainder of his contract but given Bosman that would be a case of spiting yourself
-the club cannot pay the wages that the better players can command e;sewhere. The wage bill is already way out of control...;last accounts showed wages at £17.4m, up from £4m when TH took over......gate and ST income is no more than £4m.

TH puts in up to £7m a year as a contribution to help bridge the gap. Personally I don't think any resonable person could ask more of an owner, and some people on this thread are seriously clueless.

Running costs have to come from somewhere...and the average attendance and ticket prices are both far too low (of the 7,000 ST holders only 3,000 pay the full price, match day prices are way below clubs pulling in 20,000 plus) to make North End anything more than a selling club.

Brentford is another selling club so there's nothing intrinsically wrong with the model. The problem at PNE is what the outgoing players are being replaced by, the low status of the Academy, and the lack of an U23 squad all inhibiting the development of the club's own players.
 

sedgwick__7

Advisor to the Owner
Brentford is another selling club so there's nothing intrinsically wrong with the model. The problem at PNE is what the outgoing players are being replaced by, the low status of the Academy, and the lack of an U23 squad all inhibiting the development of the club's own players.
All of these things are inhibited by the financial constraints placed on the footballing side of the club by the owner.

As you say there is nothing wrong with being a sellling club, but when little of it is reinvested in facilities, recruitment and player development then it's hard not to go backwards.
 
I think the Burnley way was essentially a coin toss. Wade Elliot bangs one in at Wembley and insists on being referred to as the £50m man for the next fortnight. Result goes the other way and they were in administration on the Monday
It didn't though, an although they got relegated in their first season in the Prem, they've never looked back since. They haven't exactly spent a fortune while maintaining their premiership status either. I think without any doubt, they are the model we should follow.
 

dawsonsjs

Reserve
I agree sedgewick but to me the club's priorities have nevef been right. Going back to when DS was the Chair £3m was allocated to an indoor traiining centre that would have facilitated youth development..it was blown on useless signings allegedly to help the promotion push.

I think it's hard to say we are going backwards...what we are currenly doing with the way the club is run is treading water. We'll go backwards when the TH money is no longer there.
 

paddysr

Bearded Beauty
Staff member
Patron
I consider AFC Fylde to be a Preston offshoot. There are parts of Preston where it's faster to get there than Deepdale!

Also Springfields is now in Fylde.
AFC Fylde are owned by a lifelong Blackpool fan and I believe former board member
 

sedgwick__7

Advisor to the Owner
I agree sedgewick but to me the club's priorities have nevef been right. Going back to when DS was the Chair £3m was allocated to an indoor traiining centre that would have facilitated youth development..it was blown on useless signings allegedly to help the promotion push.

I think it's hard to say we are going backwards...what we are currenly doing with the way the club is run is treading water. We'll go backwards when the TH money is no longer there.
I agree we aren't currently going backwards, but it feels like we're fighting it year on year.

Transfer windows have become unbearable. We drop balls in the market left, right and centre, and end up scrambling to get anyone in. Under our current model the hit rate of getting a quality signing has become so low.

Thanks to good management and a hard-working group of players, we've continued to compete despite the quality of our starting XI gradually becoming worse and worse over a 2-3 year period. In the long run it isn't sustainable and can't continue.
 

dawsonsjs

Reserve
Agreed, recrutiment is completely hit and miss...it's seriously amateur.

Only thing is PNE is far from being alone in having difficulty bringing in players...evertone is hanging on for the best deal.

For a long time there's been a complete muddle of an approach to recruitment at PNE....the club continues to (half-heartedly) run a lower status Academy but does not run an U23 side. Net result is that even if there is a good young player offered a pro contract there's no team for them to play in...same with signings of promising young players. Ledson has been at the club 2 seasons now and he is only just emerging (and looking a much better player for it than when making the rare sub apearance). We have yet to see Bayliss. Storey appeared to have gone backwards until re-emerging in the last few games.

It was thought some years back that there was no need to put resources into development as good young players could be picked up from the likes of Man U. {Problem with that is that everybody else has the same idea).

Other clubs can see the future . Burnley have now brilliant training and Academy facilities...may say that they have got the money but even Fleetwood are just spending £1million on Academy facilities, expanding their already modern training ground.

Brexit will hit hit the number of EU and overseas players as quotas and work permits are introduced.......and is likely to send transfer fees back up again as clubs search for home grown players. FA is backing the government proposals to limit EU players on the basis that this will encourage clubs to develop their own English players.

PNE response? Apart from reneging on Ingol I can't see anything.

I don't and won't criticise TH for the money put into the club (frankly I think those criticising this are completely clueless) but I think the way the club has been run since the takeover has left a lot to be desired.:
- Academy status isn't good enough
- Springfields isn't good enough
- commercial income (£2m a year) is abysmal
-poor marketing and fan liaision...what would a fan zone cost?)
- failure to bring through own players
-unfinished ground (where's the manifest ambition )
- poor loan signing record
- amateur scouting and recruitment set up leading to hit and miss recruitment

The focus is entirely on the first team, leading to the club over-achieving in terms of size as measured by trunover and av attendance, but as you rightly recognise sedgwick (completely agree with you) it isn't sustainable.

All this approach does for a few seasons is paper over the infrastructure cracks.
 

paddysr

Bearded Beauty
Staff member
Patron
Agreed, recrutiment is completely hit and miss...it's seriously amateur.

Only thing is PNE is far from being alone in having difficulty bringing in players...evertone is hanging on for the best deal.

For a long time there's been a complete muddle of an approach to recruitment at PNE....the club continues to (half-heartedly) run a lower status Academy but does not run an U23 side. Net result is that even if there is a good young player offered a pro contract there's no team for them to play in...same with signings of promising young players. Ledson has been at the club 2 seasons now and he is only just emerging (and looking a much better player for it than when making the rare sub apearance). We have yet to see Bayliss. Storey appeared to have gone backwards until re-emerging in the last few games.

It was thought some years back that there was no need to put resources into development as good young players could be picked up from the likes of Man U. {Problem with that is that everybody else has the same idea).

Other clubs can see the future . Burnley have now brilliant training and Academy facilities...may say that they have got the money but even Fleetwood are just spending £1million on Academy facilities, expanding their already modern training ground.

Brexit will hit hit the number of EU and overseas players as quotas and work permits are introduced.......and is likely to send transfer fees back up again as clubs search for home grown players. FA is backing the government proposals to limit EU players on the basis that this will encourage clubs to develop their own English players.

PNE response? Apart from reneging on Ingol I can't see anything.

I don't and won't criticise TH for the money put into the club (frankly I think those criticising this are completely clueless) but I think the way the club has been run since the takeover has left a lot to be desired.:
- Academy status isn't good enough
- Springfields isn't good enough
- commercial income (£2m a year) is abysmal
-poor marketing and fan liaision...what would a fan zone cost?)
- failure to bring through own players
-unfinished ground (where's the manifest ambition )
- poor loan signing record
- amateur scouting and recruitment set up leading to hit and miss recruitment

The focus is entirely on the first team, leading to the club over-achieving in terms of size as measured by trunover and av attendance, but as you rightly recognise sedgwick (completely agree with you) it isn't sustainable.

All this approach does for a few seasons is paper over the infrastructure cracks.
Cant disagree with any of that. Excellent post.
 

bigtallsi

Forum Patron
Patron
It didn't though, an although they got relegated in their first season in the Prem, they've never looked back since. They haven't exactly spent a fortune while maintaining their premiership status either. I think without any doubt, they are the model we should follow.
You make a fair point and the way they've done it since being promoted again, as you say, is definitely something that is aspirational. However, if that goal hadn't gone in where would they be now? They took risks, bet the Farm and got lucky.

As mentioned though, fair points made
 

Jack Daniels

Always Poor, Never Bored.
Staff member
Patron
Agreed, recrutiment is completely hit and miss...it's seriously amateur.

Only thing is PNE is far from being alone in having difficulty bringing in players...evertone is hanging on for the best deal.

For a long time there's been a complete muddle of an approach to recruitment at PNE....the club continues to (half-heartedly) run a lower status Academy but does not run an U23 side. Net result is that even if there is a good young player offered a pro contract there's no team for them to play in...same with signings of promising young players. Ledson has been at the club 2 seasons now and he is only just emerging (and looking a much better player for it than when making the rare sub apearance). We have yet to see Bayliss. Storey appeared to have gone backwards until re-emerging in the last few games.

It was thought some years back that there was no need to put resources into development as good young players could be picked up from the likes of Man U. {Problem with that is that everybody else has the same idea).

Other clubs can see the future . Burnley have now brilliant training and Academy facilities...may say that they have got the money but even Fleetwood are just spending £1million on Academy facilities, expanding their already modern training ground.

Brexit will hit hit the number of EU and overseas players as quotas and work permits are introduced.......and is likely to send transfer fees back up again as clubs search for home grown players. FA is backing the government proposals to limit EU players on the basis that this will encourage clubs to develop their own English players.

PNE response? Apart from reneging on Ingol I can't see anything.
I don't and won't criticise TH for the money put into the club (frankly I think those criticising this are completely clueless) but I think the way the club has been run since the takeover has left a lot to be desired.:
- Academy status isn't good enough
- Springfields isn't good enough
- commercial income (£2m a year) is abysmal
-poor marketing and fan liaision...what would a fan zone cost?)
- failure to bring through own players
-unfinished ground (where's the manifest ambition )
- poor loan signing record
- amateur scouting and recruitment set up leading to hit and miss recruitment

The focus is entirely on the first team, leading to the club over-achieving in terms of size as measured by trunover and av attendance, but as you rightly recognise sedgwick (completely agree with you) it isn't sustainable.

All this approach does for a few seasons is paper over the infrastructure cracks.
A good post.

The only bit I disagree with is the highlighted part.

Nobody is complaining at TJH putting in around £6m PA.

What people are asking for however is that of the incoming monies, instead of maybe 10% (see Hugill £8m to PNE - Stockley £750k paid out) being spent on a replacement, maybe he could up the unaccounted for extra allowance to around 40% which would have been £3.2m off the Hugill fee.

If players let their contracts run down by refusing to move - quite possible and within their rights - TJH wouldn't see any of the money, let alone his 60% as highlighted above.

Basically, can he be a tad more flexible with his releasing of self generated incoming Transfer Fees? That's all the majority of fans are asking for.
 

Henry Weston

Forum Patron
Patron
A good post.

The only bit I disagree with is the highlighted part.

Nobody is complaining at TJH putting in around £6m PA.

What people are asking for however is that of the incoming monies, instead of maybe 10% (see Hugill £8m to PNE - Stockley £750k paid out) being spent on a replacement, maybe he could up the unaccounted for extra allowance to around 40% which would have been £3.2m off the Hugill fee.

If players let their contracts run down by refusing to move - quite possible and within their rights - TJH wouldn't see any of the money, let alone his 60% as highlighted above.

Basically, can he be a tad more flexible with his releasing of self generated incoming Transfer Fees? That's all the majority of fans are asking for.
That last point nails it for me(and I’m sure for the majority of others) 👍
 
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