Is it time for Hemmings to finally go?

sports rehab

Advisor to the Owner
to answer the OP.. then NO.....

Not until football is back to being self financed with gates and TC monies etc....

if he went 'now' then we wouldnt have a club by the time covid restrictions end.
 

Jack Daniels

Always Poor, Never Bored.
Staff member
Patron
Robinson a potential windfall that will almost certainly have been factored in. The reality is that budgets are flexible and ever changing.

Its hard to see that there is any sort of consistent effective budget planning going on at north end TBH other than keeping Hemmings input down to a reasonable level. If we get a windfall it allows a few contracts to be renewed and his personal input to be reduced for a few months.

My issue is not the amount the backing but how inconsistently it is used. For example, perhaps Bayliss will prove a real bargain in the end but there's no point in buying for the future when you havent sorted out the present. It all points to a lack of clarity or purpose and is why were running to stand still all the time.

How can you factored this into a budget when any of these 3 things could happen?

1) The player can choose to quite simply see his contract out, leave on a Free and scoop an almighty Signing On Fee.

2) The player could break his leg, rupture his ACL, etc. Out of contract and then of no value to anyone for the next 6 months.

3) Prices could suddenly, as we are about to find out due to C19, drop quite dramatically from any original extortionate asking price. With less than a year to go, we are not, as a club, in any position of strength. The player and his agent are though.
 

simo

Advisor to the Owner
How can you factored this into a budget when any of these 3 things could happen?

1) The player can choose to quite simply see his contract out, leave on a Free and scoop an almighty Signing On Fee.

2) The player could break his leg, rupture his ACL, etc. Out of contract and then of no value to anyone for the next 6 months.

3) Prices could suddenly, as we are about to find out due to C19, drop quite dramatically from any original extortionate asking price. With less than a year to go, we are not, as a club, in any position of strength. The player and his agent are though.

Ok, "factored in" is probably the wrong term to use but see tino's post above.
 

simo

Advisor to the Owner
This is clearly mentioned in the annual report though as being the 'plan'. Player sales = less input required from Hemmings.

That doesn't provide an answer as to why reinvestment is so low though and indeed why we spent £1M+ on a midfielder who played 20 minutes in the league when we so badly needed a striker.

"Reinvestment" is low because even with these windfalls the club still spends a lot more on wages than it receives in income.

The argument always come down to people wanting to spend more of other people's money. As a fan I don't disagree with this sentiment but how the money we do have is being spent it a more interesting and relevant discussion in my mind.
 

Brianjohn14

First Team
Well no wonder we don't have many supporters left after years of hope we will never increase our attendances while Hemmings ( Scroog ) owns PNE he is quite happy to have us in mid table and will not give us what we need for that final push to the premier league . I really think he doesn't want us to get to the prem he might as well sell up and go maybe if he reduced the money he is asking he would find a buyer .
 

europne

Advisor to the Owner
Well no wonder we don't have many supporters left after years of hope we will never increase our attendances while Hemmings ( Scroog ) owns PNE he is quite happy to have us in mid table and will not give us what we need for that final push to the premier league . I really think he doesn't want us to get to the prem he might as well sell up and go maybe if he reduced the money he is asking he would find a buyer .

You sound like a lasher !

Sell up?
Find a buyer?
Scrooge?

Get a life sunshine...
 

sports rehab

Advisor to the Owner
Well no wonder we don't have many supporters left after years of hope we will never increase our attendances while Hemmings ( Scroog ) owns PNE he is quite happy to have us in mid table and will not give us what we need for that final push to the premier league . I really think he doesn't want us to get to the prem he might as well sell up and go maybe if he reduced the money he is asking he would find a buyer .
we've never increased our gates since Sir Tom retired....

These gates are well up on the 80's and early 90's... but down on the halcyon days of BD etc,,,,.
 

MBcha

Forum Patron
Patron
we've never increased our gates since Sir Tom retired....

These gates are well up on the 80's and early 90's... but down on the halcyon days of BD etc,,,,.
I dont feel that the club does anywhere near enough to encourage people to games though (not that it matters right now).

I mean... a fanzone would be a good start!
 

MBcha

Forum Patron
Patron
The club must've seen the pandemic coming and that's why the scrapped the fanzone.

Wise fella that TH.
 

Walton

Forum Patron
Patron
Not sure where the club is regarding a fanzone but I think (not just PNE) but clubs in general will need to find ways of enticing fans back when grounds are reopened, I just think that fans across the board will for one reason or another be reassessing when and how they “support” their clubs.
 

simo

Advisor to the Owner
Price.
Decent successful footy.

Everything else is a pointless distraction from getting the first two right.
 

Brianjohn14

First Team
You sound like a lasher !

Sell up?
Find a buyer?
Scrooge?

Get a life sunshine...
I did see Tom Finney play and saw his last game PNE were always neat the top .
When Finney retired most of the first team all being at the end of there playing career we got big crowds , the trouble was we did not invest in the team and we played most of our youth team players mind you we had some really good young players but not enough experience enough for that level of football .Its no wonder the supporters have left the club has always run the club like corner lolly shop .The only time I thought we would get back to the 1st division basin 1964 we were at the top on the 2nd division and also in the F A cup final and I think had we not got to wembly we would have got up instead Sunderland and LEEDS went up as only 2 went up back them days . Thought we would challenge the following year we had a great team but as typical PNE we sold off any player that would bring a few Bob in .All the teams around us have left us for dead we never show any ambition and never will while that con man Hemmings as control of the club he will sell one after he has sold off all the assets but by that time maybe no one will buy and you know what happened to Bury that could be PNE too the sooner he goes the better we will be .I am 71 years old I still love the club but I will never see Pne in the top division , so I am not a lasher I am a broken hearted PNE FAN and will never change .
I also hope Alex Neil stays he has done marvellous for PNE with little support but you know if there is a BOB in it for Hemmings he will go unfortunately.
 

sedgwick__7

Advisor to the Owner
Price.
Decent successful footy.

Everything else is a pointless distraction from getting the first two right.

Can see your point, I just think PNE are slightly stuck in a backward mindset about how fans think. It's not like 60-70 years ago anymore, far less people view going on the football on a Saturday afternoon as some sort of religious sacrament.

There's now much cheaper modes of entertainment to keep one occupied at a weekend than watching football. It's very easy to get out of the habit of having a season ticket and find other ways to spend your Saturdays. There will be a lot of people now out of the habit too after this pandemic, and probably reluctant to return. Folk need to be enticed on, and enjoy the whole experience.

Obviously a new bar or a fanzone wouldn't suddenly see our suddenly gates rocket, but over the long term the improvement of the stadium facilities and matchday experience could only help to improve our gates.

Sadly the club hold a bit of a 'make do' attitude in this regard like everything else. Why build new, modern, quality training facilities when we can use our dated one ? Why create a fanzone when we don't 'need' one ?

None of these things will change until we're in the Prem, and we haven't made the Championship play-offs in 11 years, so we aren't close to that happening. Yet it won't be sustainable in the long-term for the club to continue to be in the Championship with so little investment in off the field infrastructure.
 

europne

Advisor to the Owner
I did see Tom Finney play and saw his last game PNE were always neat the top .
When Finney retired most of the first team all being at the end of there playing career we got big crowds , the trouble was we did not invest in the team and we played most of our youth team players mind you we had some really good young players but not enough experience enough for that level of football .Its no wonder the supporters have left the club has always run the club like corner lolly shop .The only time I thought we would get back to the 1st division basin 1964 we were at the top on the 2nd division and also in the F A cup final and I think had we not got to wembly we would have got up instead Sunderland and LEEDS went up as only 2 went up back them days . Thought we would challenge the following year we had a great team but as typical PNE we sold off any player that would bring a few Bob in .All the teams around us have left us for dead we never show any ambition and never will while that con man Hemmings as control of the club he will sell one after he has sold off all the assets but by that time maybe no one will buy and you know what happened to Bury that could be PNE too the sooner he goes the better we will be .I am 71 years old I still love the club but I will never see Pne in the top division , so I am not a lasher I am a broken hearted PNE FAN and will never change .
I also hope Alex Neil stays he has done marvellous for PNE with little support but you know if there is a BOB in it for Hemmings he will go unfortunately.

I applaud your support of PNE, but your views on its ownership and funding are unfortunately a little fuddled.

In the time you have supported this club, which is just about 3 years longer than me, I never saw Finney play, you were very lucky, the club has struggled, we are without doubt currently going through one of our better periods after spending many years in lower divisions. We are all frustrated that we haven’t achieved more.

There is absolutely no doubt at all that TH has invested a massive amount of money in this club both while he has owned it, and for many years before, that is a fact.

I can assure you that no one else even comes close in terms of investing or financing the club during the period you are talking about, so to criticise him about his financial commitment is plainly ridiculous.

Unfortunately there are other clubs with backers, many from abroad, who put obscene amounts into a game where very few except the players actually make money, even at the very top.

Make way for a new owner fans cry, well just who? This is fraught with danger as the almost criminal dealings at some local clubs has recently shown, leaving them tumbling down the leagues or even gone!

TH is not your problem, until someone else pops up who can do better (and I wouldn’t hold your breath), he is actually our saviour.

No point going on about our local clubs being in the Premier league, the only one we can learn from is Burnley who amazingly continue to buck the odds, we can learn from them, but they also not that long ago were a hairs breadth from administration.

Just keep supporting and enjoying, no point being bitter.
 

europne

Advisor to the Owner
Let’s get this straight, over the next few years football, especially in the lower divisions, will, as many many big businesses, be concentrating purely on survival as the recession really starts to bite from later this year.

Survival and stability, there will be a lot of casualties.
 

paddysr

Bearded Beauty
Staff member
Patron
I applaud your support of PNE, but your views on its ownership and funding are unfortunately a little fuddled.

In the time you have supported this club, which is just about 3 years longer than me, I never saw Finney play, you were very lucky, the club has struggled, we are without doubt currently going through one of our better periods after spending many years in lower divisions. We are all frustrated that we haven’t achieved more.

There is absolutely no doubt at all that TH has invested a massive amount of money in this club both while he has owned it, and for many years before, that is a fact.

I can assure you that no one else even comes close in terms of investing or financing the club during the period you are talking about, so to criticise him about his financial commitment is plainly ridiculous.

Unfortunately there are other clubs with backers, many from abroad, who put obscene amounts into a game where very few except the players actually make money, even at the very top.

Make way for a new owner fans cry, well just who? This is fraught with danger as the almost criminal dealings at some local clubs has recently shown, leaving them tumbling down the leagues or even gone!

TH is not your problem, until someone else pops up who can do better (and I wouldn’t hold your breath), he is actually our saviour.

No point going on about our local clubs being in the Premier league, the only one we can learn from is Burnley who amazingly continue to buck the odds, we can learn from them, but they also not that long ago were a hairs breadth from administration.

Just keep supporting and enjoying, no point being bitter.
A few points:

He isn't our saviour he is our owner.

Of course nobody else has invested the same amount but nobody else has seen the same amount of revenue either.

It isn't ridiculous to criticise his financial investment, nobody is expecting him to go out and spend £20m on players all people are asking for is reinvestment of player revenues and not leaving us significantly weaker.
 

jakehake

Preachs PA
Staff member
Patron
It isn't ridiculous to criticise his financial investment, nobody is expecting him to go out and spend £20m on players all people are asking for is reinvestment of player revenues and not leaving us significantly weaker.

A couple of new players(3 or 4 in reality even without allowing for anyone leaving), new contracts issued to those of the 17 we want to keep. Not coming from the £6m that is covering existing wages so that leaves £14m to acheive that. That figure doesn't seem that outlandish based on what people are actually expecting, any spending less than that will be seen as not enough certainly by many given the company and markets we now move in.
 

europne

Advisor to the Owner
A few points:

He isn't our saviour he is our owner.

Of course nobody else has invested the same amount but nobody else has seen the same amount of revenue either.

It isn't ridiculous to criticise his financial investment, nobody is expecting him to go out and spend £20m on players all people are asking for is reinvestment of player revenues and not leaving us significantly weaker.
A couple of new players(3 or 4 in reality even without allowing for anyone leaving), new contracts issued to those of the 17 we want to keep. Not coming from the £6m that is covering existing wages so that leaves £14m to acheive that. That figure doesn't seem that outlandish based on what people are actually expecting, any spending less than that will be seen as not enough certainly by many given the company and markets we now move in.

Obviously I haven’t explained myself properly, I was trying to say that TH has done a great job of funding the club, filling the gap of what we earn and what we spend, I don’t think anyone can argue that.

Has his strategy been correct, who knows, we aren’t in a bad position and considering the size of our club we are in a better position than most.

As for spending or ‘investment ‘ in the future? As I said , any fool can spend money, especially those who haven’t got it.......or become an expert on football finance....we all dream.....
 
Top