Is it time for Hemmings to finally go?

simo

Advisor to the Owner
I think there are legitimate questions to ask regarding what more can be
achieved under the strategy (if it can be called that) followed over the last few years but, at the same time, it has to be acknowledged that were probably better off now than we would have been if he'd thrown the towel in in 2010/11.
 

Mr Meeseeks

Forum Patron
Patron
First and foremost let me start of by saying that I acknowledge I am not a millionaire, so I know it's 'easy to spend other people's money'.

Buying a football club is different to owning a typical business or even any other asset for that matter. Ultimately you put money in and you get little back. Generally it's a hobby or a passion for a local club, only at top, top level does it make actual business sense. Therefore it's expected that you will need to put money in to keep it afloat with very little financial reward.

When Hemmings bought this club, he must have known this as does any owner. So I don't think it's unreasonable for fans to expect him to make certain outlays with no immediate return. In other words, you can't complain about having to spend money to sign good footballers when you bought a football club, it's surely that simple.

No PNE fan will tell you that they expect to spend silly money. In fact, there's something about us having recruited well on a budget (relative to divisional competitors) that is quite charming. But time moves on, prices inflate and the market changes. The £1,000,000 that bought a top end player 10 years ago now get's you 1 tenth of League One's top goalscorer (going off what MacAnthony values him at).

It's not unreasonable to expect the owner of a football club to put his hand in his pocket and put the club in the best position possible. Especially so when clubs around us seem to be able to do so. We are now being outbid by Millwall as an example, who seemingly have faith in their manager and are willing to back him. They are in the same position as us with a strong top half finish, successful young manager and a solid team that's been together for a few years. The difference is they are now identifying players they believe can help them kick on and going for it. The worst thing is they're not even throwing silly money around, they're just making very shrewd signings.

We've seen Brentford zoom past us in recent years from lower league plodders to Championship high flyers. Sheffield United were stuck in League One longer than us and again came right past us, kicking on and backing a talented manager. We've lost Burnley for many a year now, a bitter rival we used to play every season as long as I can remember as a teenager now going to the Etihad, Old Trafford and the Emirates year on year. What terrifies me most is that even the Lashers seem to have an owner who is willing to invest, he's backed two different managers now within a year and how long until they get the right gaffer? If they get it right on the pitch, he will be backed 100%.

We're at serious risk of moving backwards from a great position. We have a talented, young, proven manager at this level and a solid, young team who know each other and the club inside out, we just need that bit of backing for that extra bit of quality...not a massive in the scheme of things.
 

edgy

Forum Patron
Patron
First and foremost let me start of by saying that I acknowledge I am not a millionaire, so I know it's 'easy to spend other people's money'.

Buying a football club is different to owning a typical business or even any other asset for that matter. Ultimately you put money in and you get little back. Generally it's a hobby or a passion for a local club, only at top, top level does it make actual business sense. Therefore it's expected that you will need to put money in to keep it afloat with very little financial reward.

When Hemmings bought this club, he must have known this as does any owner. So I don't think it's unreasonable for fans to expect him to make certain outlays with no immediate return. In other words, you can't complain about having to spend money to sign good footballers when you bought a football club, it's surely that simple.

No PNE fan will tell you that they expect to spend silly money. In fact, there's something about us having recruited well on a budget (relative to divisional competitors) that is quite charming. But time moves on, prices inflate and the market changes. The £1,000,000 that bought a top end player 10 years ago now get's you 1 tenth of League One's top goalscorer (going off what MacAnthony values him at).

It's not unreasonable to expect the owner of a football club to put his hand in his pocket and put the club in the best position possible. Especially so when clubs around us seem to be able to do so. We are now being outbid by Millwall as an example, who seemingly have faith in their manager and are willing to back him. They are in the same position as us with a strong top half finish, successful young manager and a solid team that's been together for a few years. The difference is they are now identifying players they believe can help them kick on and going for it. The worst thing is they're not even throwing silly money around, they're just making very shrewd signings.

We've seen Brentford zoom past us in recent years from lower league plodders to Championship high flyers. Sheffield United were stuck in League One longer than us and again came right past us, kicking on and backing a talented manager. We've lost Burnley for many a year now, a bitter rival we used to play every season as long as I can remember as a teenager now going to the Etihad, Old Trafford and the Emirates year on year. What terrifies me most is that even the Lashers seem to have an owner who is willing to invest, he's backed two different managers now within a year and how long until they get the right gaffer? If they get it right on the pitch, he will be backed 100%.

We're at serious risk of moving backwards from a great position. We have a talented, young, proven manager at this level and a solid, young team who know each other and the club inside out, we just need that bit of backing for that extra bit of quality...not a massive in the scheme of things.
It was all going so well until you got to the manager bit, but then I may be mistaken. Are you aware of a new recruit?
 

taxipete1

Manager
First and foremost let me start of by saying that I acknowledge I am not a millionaire, so I know it's 'easy to spend other people's money'.

Buying a football club is different to owning a typical business or even any other asset for that matter. Ultimately you put money in and you get little back. Generally it's a hobby or a passion for a local club, only at top, top level does it make actual business sense. Therefore it's expected that you will need to put money in to keep it afloat with very little financial reward.

When Hemmings bought this club, he must have known this as does any owner. So I don't think it's unreasonable for fans to expect him to make certain outlays with no immediate return. In other words, you can't complain about having to spend money to sign good footballers when you bought a football club, it's surely that simple.

No PNE fan will tell you that they expect to spend silly money. In fact, there's something about us having recruited well on a budget (relative to divisional competitors) that is quite charming. But time moves on, prices inflate and the market changes. The £1,000,000 that bought a top end player 10 years ago now get's you 1 tenth of League One's top goalscorer (going off what MacAnthony values him at).

It's not unreasonable to expect the owner of a football club to put his hand in his pocket and put the club in the best position possible. Especially so when clubs around us seem to be able to do so. We are now being outbid by Millwall as an example, who seemingly have faith in their manager and are willing to back him. They are in the same position as us with a strong top half finish, successful young manager and a solid team that's been together for a few years. The difference is they are now identifying players they believe can help them kick on and going for it. The worst thing is they're not even throwing silly money around, they're just making very shrewd signings.

We've seen Brentford zoom past us in recent years from lower league plodders to Championship high flyers. Sheffield United were stuck in League One longer than us and again came right past us, kicking on and backing a talented manager. We've lost Burnley for many a year now, a bitter rival we used to play every season as long as I can remember as a teenager now going to the Etihad, Old Trafford and the Emirates year on year. What terrifies me most is that even the Lashers seem to have an owner who is willing to invest, he's backed two different managers now within a year and how long until they get the right gaffer? If they get it right on the pitch, he will be backed 100%.

We're at serious risk of moving backwards from a great position. We have a talented, young, proven manager at this level and a solid, young team who know each other and the club inside out, we just need that bit of backing for that extra bit of quality...not a massive in the scheme of things.
I must have been imagining our last few seasons competing at the top end of one of the biggest league's in Europe.
 

Mr Meeseeks

Forum Patron
Patron
I must have been imagining our last few seasons competing at the top end of one of the biggest league's in Europe.
You must have done. We haven’t made the playoffs in any of them and despite being top at one point early this season, we finished mid table.

Fact is we have a top half side but to make the cut for the top six or top two, we need the bit of quality I’m alluding to.

If we don’t bring said quality in, this team will he picked apart and we will soon go back to being a top League One side.
 

Madferret

Manager
“Is it time for Hemmings to go?” A stupid question as he owns the. Lib and it is his decision “to go” or not. Unless he sells the club he’s going nowhere. If you disagree with recruitment or how the club is run, suggest you go and buy your own club and run it how you like.
 

Mr Meeseeks

Forum Patron
Patron
“Is it time for Hemmings to go?” A stupid question as he owns the. Lib and it is his decision “to go” or not. Unless he sells the club he’s going nowhere. If you disagree with recruitment or how the club is run, suggest you go and buy your own club and run it how you like.
So unless you’re the owner of a football club you’re not in a position to scrutinise recruitment? What an absolutely ridiculous statement.

So long as football is a fan driven, spectator sport that relies heavily on gate, television and merchandise revenue, any part of the club from tea lady up to owner is open for scrutiny from fans.
 

Thracia

Forum Patron
Patron
So you know what TH has budgeted for ! I. Fairly positive he wasn't expecting CV19.
You've mangled the quote, so I don't really know what you're asking me about.

But the club's running costs have to be paid whether there's transfer income or not (and whether there's Covid-19 or not, come to that).

The owner has to pay them. That's how businesses work.

Sorry if this is still unclear to you.

And my point is, transfer income should be treated as windfall income, and should be used to invest directly back into the squad every time we sell a quality player, so that the quality of the squad stays constant or (ideally) improves.

Transfer income should not be used just to cover some of the running costs, just to save the owner some money in the short-term, because that inevitably leads to a reduction in the quality of the squad every time a player asset is stripped out of it.

BTW, if you read subsequent posts, you'll see some posters think "budgeted" may be too grandiose a term for the sort of haphazard hand-to-mouth funding that may actually go on at the club - but I don't know about that.
 

giro

Manager
Would it be possibly for the “It’s time Hemmings went” brigade to provide a copy of the list of endless Investors who are clamouring to take over the club?
 

Mr Meeseeks

Forum Patron
Patron
Would it be possibly for the “It’s time Hemmings went” brigade to provide a copy of the list of endless Investors who are clamouring to take over the club?
Most level headed Nobbers don’t want him to sell up. They just want him to dig a little further into his pockets to keep us competitive in an ever inflating market.
 

LancasterRed

Mad Scientist
Patron
Would it be possibly for the “It’s time Hemmings went” brigade to provide a copy of the list of endless Investors who are clamouring to take over the club?

I try to be civil on here but this is another post that exudes cluelessness as to how football works.

IF Hemmings put the club on the market for an affordable price (let's say £40m-£50m because I'm really not sure and as a guesstimate I'd say that's fair) then businessmen and consortiums would emerge who would be interested in buying our club.

I highly doubt anyone knew of any consortiums made before bidding to buy a particular club unless they had history.

I would anticipate Peter Ridsdale leading a consortium for one, however at a fair price realistic options will emerge over time.

Our desires for Hemmings to make sensible investments have been realistic and would promote club growth but so far have not occurred and we are at a point of financial uncertainly due to Hemmings' stubbornness and refusal to listen to footballing experience while he demonstrates clear flaws relating to running a football club, subsequently causing the club to require additional investment as the assets aren't there to shift and won't be replaced sensibly.

So in short, it's time for TH to start looking at the future of the club under a new ownership.
 

andyg156

First Team
You've mangled the quote, so I don't really know what you're asking me about.

But the club's running costs have to be paid whether there's transfer income or not (and whether there's Covid-19 or not, come to that).

The owner has to pay them. That's how businesses work.

Sorry if this is still unclear to you.

And my point is, transfer income should be treated as windfall income, and should be used to invest directly back into the squad every time we sell a quality player, so that the quality of the squad stays constant or (ideally) improves.

Transfer income should not be used just to cover some of the running costs, just to save the owner some money in the short-term, because that inevitably leads to a reduction in the quality of the squad every time a player asset is stripped out of it.

BTW, if you read subsequent posts, you'll see some posters think "budgeted" may be too grandiose a term for the sort of haphazard hand-to-mouth funding that may actually go on at the club - but I don't know about that.
How patronising are you ! Well if we want to talk running a business , I'm very content to carry on. As not only have I owned a few, one which unfortunately did have have CVA placed on it. So I do have some insight.
Like I said do you know what was budgeted by TH. I expect he would have accounted
for gate receipts . I also expect the function rooms would normally bring in some revenue. Clud shop would have taken a hit in profits., the list isn't endless, but I'm sure he wouldn't have captured it all the shortfalls in his business We all know the club is running at monthly losses before the CV19.
 

Thracia

Forum Patron
Patron
How patronising are you ! Well if we want to talk running a business , I'm very content to carry on. As not only have I owned a few, one which unfortunately did have have CVA placed on it. So I do have some insight.
Like I said do you know what was budgeted by TH. I expect he would have accounted
for gate receipts . I also expect the function rooms would normally bring in some revenue. Clud shop would have taken a hit in profits., the list isn't endless, but I'm sure he wouldn't have captured it all the shortfalls in his business We all know the club is running at monthly losses before the CV19.
You haven't engaged with anything I wrote, or the topic I wrote about. You fucked up the quote in the first place, so I had to guess what you were asking about, forcing me to take time to make a lengthy, helpful post for your benefit alone - then you moan it's patronising that I'm not a fucking mind-reader.
 

paddysr

Bearded Beauty
Staff member
Patron
So unless you’re the owner of a football club you’re not in a position to scrutinise recruitment? What an absolutely ridiculous statement.

So long as football is a fan driven, spectator sport that relies heavily on gate, television and merchandise revenue, any part of the club from tea lady up to owner is open for scrutiny from fans.
Thats up there with some of the most stupid statements I have ever read on here.

Many of the fans on here had shares in the club until Hemmings ripped them off. A football club is vastly different to, say a retail store and even they listen to the requirements of their paying customers otherwise they would only sell what they want.
 

Thracia

Forum Patron
Patron
I try to be civil on here but this is another post that exudes cluelessness as to how football works.

IF Hemmings put the club on the market for an affordable price (let's say £40m-£50m because I'm really not sure and as a guesstimate I'd say that's fair) then businessmen and consortiums would emerge who would be interested in buying our club.

I highly doubt anyone knew of any consortiums made before bidding to buy a particular club unless they had history.

I would anticipate Peter Ridsdale leading a consortium for one, however at a fair price realistic options will emerge over time.

Our desires for Hemmings to make sensible investments have been realistic and would promote club growth but so far have not occurred and we are at a point of financial uncertainly due to Hemmings' stubbornness and refusal to listen to footballing experience while he demonstrates clear flaws relating to running a football club, subsequently causing the club to require additional investment as the assets aren't there to shift and won't be replaced sensibly.

So in short, it's time for TH to start looking at the future of the club under a new ownership.
The "where's your list of investors then?" argument (aka "where's your billion?") is the flimsiest of straw men, pulled out by these guys in times of total desperation.

If TH put the club up for sale, there'd be serious enquiries. We know that. They know that.

As regards setting an asking price, I believe according to recent precedent the incumbent owner should expect 5p in the £.
 

Korol

Football Expert
Patron
I try to be civil on here but this is another post that exudes cluelessness as to how football works.

IF Hemmings put the club on the market for an affordable price (let's say £40m-£50m because I'm really not sure and as a guesstimate I'd say that's fair) then businessmen and consortiums would emerge who would be interested in buying our club.

I highly doubt anyone knew of any consortiums made before bidding to buy a particular club unless they had history.

I would anticipate Peter Ridsdale leading a consortium for one, however at a fair price realistic options will emerge over time.

Our desires for Hemmings to make sensible investments have been realistic and would promote club growth but so far have not occurred and we are at a point of financial uncertainly due to Hemmings' stubbornness and refusal to listen to footballing experience while he demonstrates clear flaws relating to running a football club, subsequently causing the club to require additional investment as the assets aren't there to shift and won't be replaced sensibly.

So in short, it's time for TH to start looking at the future of the club under a new ownership.

I've seen this a few times now.

Why would Peter Ridsdale, a specialist in football operations and a Leeds United fan, want to buy Preston North End?

Of course if the club were to be sold he would act as an intermediary but suggesting that our acting Chairman would lead a consortium to buy the club is unsubstantiated.
 

JK

The Big Boss
Staff member
Patron
I must have been imagining our last few seasons competing at the top end of one of the biggest league's in Europe.

The Championship is one of the most entertaining, unpredictable and well supported leagues in Europe but it isn't one of the biggest financially and the owner will never get any of his money back unless we get promotion to the biggest league in europe.

We have competed at the top end for half a season for the past few years and then faded away when in January we have not pushed on from a strong base. We have not competed at the top end consistently for a very long time.

Had we supported our manager in January this season by allowing him to sign a goalscorer to replace the two we sold over the previous two windows then I think we would have finished in the play offs.

Since then we have had Covid and the markets have changed.

Last season was a huge opportunity missed.
 

Liberation

Forum Patron
Patron
I try to be civil on here but this is another post that exudes cluelessness as to how football works.

IF Hemmings put the club on the market for an affordable price (let's say £40m-£50m because I'm really not sure and as a guesstimate I'd say that's fair) then businessmen and consortiums would emerge who would be interested in buying our club.

I highly doubt anyone knew of any consortiums made before bidding to buy a particular club unless they had history.

I would anticipate Peter Ridsdale leading a consortium for one, however at a fair price realistic options will emerge over time.

Our desires for Hemmings to make sensible investments have been realistic and would promote club growth but so far have not occurred and we are at a point of financial uncertainly due to Hemmings' stubbornness and refusal to listen to footballing experience while he demonstrates clear flaws relating to running a football club, subsequently causing the club to require additional investment as the assets aren't there to shift and won't be replaced sensibly.

So in short, it's time for TH to start looking at the future of the club under a new ownership.


He appears to want his money back ( double your estimate) but will never get it unless we drop lucky and reach the Prem.... Until/unless that happens then PNE will be treated as a " lost leader" ..That's the truth of it. Meanwhile our owner has a duty to run the business properly and pay the bills which isn't charity it's a requirement.
 
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