Match Day - England v Italy. 11/07/2021 - KO 20:00 - Wembley - Uefa 2020 - FINAL

JohnPNE

Advisor to the Owner
Not sure what Gareth has achieved as some of you are suggesting.

No difference between finishing last in your group and losing a final, you still lost.

Achieving something is winning it. Would the Spanish or French be awarding knighthoods if they lost the final?

Country rewards failure. English love a loser and a sob story. Aim of the sport is to win, not be the best loser.

Last sentence is bollocks. Clearly you’ve never played a sport to think the ONLY aim is to win.
 

Double J

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Aims and progress are different things. For Mercedes it wouldn't be progress as they were already first. For a smaller team finishing top 10 or top 5 or top 3 would be seen as progress rather than a failure as everything is in your eyes. You're starting to sound like one of those awful competitive parents on the sidelines at football who get wound up if their kid isn't playing every game or the team wins each week. Like I said, it's not healthy for many reasons
Progress isn’t a word in sport though in my eyes. Its used by people who are failing to disguise failure. One tournament doesn’t have a bearing on the next.

The aim is the same, win. Its literally the whole point of the sport.
 

JohnPNE

Advisor to the Owner
Progress isn’t a word in sport though in my eyes. Its used by people who are failing to disguise failure. One tournament doesn’t have a bearing on the next.

The aim is the same, win. Its literally the whole point of the sport.

So Iceland failed in 2016 despite having no chance of winning the tournament but it was incredible they even made the quarter final. They made progress and it was an incredible achievement for them but they failed as they didn’t win.

Bollocks is a word in sport. Look it up. It’s what you talk.
 

pne_monster

Advisor to the Owner
Progress isn’t a word in sport though in my eyes. Its used by people who are failing to disguise failure. One tournament doesn’t have a bearing on the next.

The aim is the same, win. Its literally the whole point of the sport.
So if you don't win every game from the point that you start playing at say 5 years old you're a failure? Or maybe there's a small chance that you have to progress through certain aspects of skill acquisition, tactical acumen, team cohesiveness, physical development etc etc to get to the point where you might win if the stars align.
 

Ron Burgundy

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Progress isn’t a word in sport though in my eyes. Its used by people who are failing to disguise failure. One tournament doesn’t have a bearing on the next.

The aim is the same, win. Its literally the whole point of the sport.

So every successful team in your eyes are just made overnight, no such thing as progression, wonder why it's in the oxford dictionary then.

You should watch Building Jerusalem about the World Cup winning rugby team, might educate you a bit, emphasis on building which you don't do without progression.

FYI it's not on CBeebies.
 

Double J

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Last sentence is bollocks. Clearly you’ve never played a sport to think the ONLY aim is to win.
Do you grow up as a child dreaming of winning or making progress?

Dont get a trophy for ‘progress’

In sport you win or lose. Southgate has now lost 3 tournaments.
 
Not to go round in circles but anything but a win is failure.

Wouldnt see team Mercedes and Lewis Hamilton calling finishing second in the constructors Championship progress. Its failure. The aim is to win.

Being pandered to for losing and being called heroes is exactly what is wrong with the country. Rewarding failure.

View attachment 4199

This was the reaction to costing your country success in 1998.
Compare that to the reaction of the last few days.

We did absolutely nothing in any of the following tournaments after 1998 despite having the class of 92 led golden generation in their prime years so that reaction hardly worked did it?!
 

Double J

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We did absolutely nothing in any of the following tournaments after 1998 despite having the class of 92 led golden generation in their prime years so that reaction hardly worked did it?!
Won the treble the season after for his club. Went on to be one of the most decorated English players ever.

He’d be given an MBE for that red card now.
 

JohnPNE

Advisor to the Owner
Do you grow up as a child dreaming of winning or making progress?

Dont get a trophy for ‘progress’

In sport you win or lose. Southgate has now lost 3 tournaments.

No you don’t but to be able to win you need to make progress. England got to the semi final in 2018 and final in 2021 and that is progress and the first part of being a winner is making progress.

By your logic the Germany manager would have been sacked after 2012 - three tournaments but they kept him on and won in 2014.

Going by your earlier post - why didn’t Didi Haman call for Low to be sacked considering he feels so strongly about ‘failure.’

People don’t just win things by turning up. You need to make progress. And by making progress year on year that’s how you become winners. You can look at any player in the history of football and to become the players they were it was progress. Progress is more key to any sport than winning.
 

Mer5eywhite

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Progress is a made up word to hide failure by people who are failing in their jobs.

You win or you lose. One tournament has absolutely nothing to do with the next.

Is Gareth being paid to win trophies or lose games of football that actually matter? If the latter, he’s doing a grand job.
Then according to you every country will sack it’s coach/manager (except Italy).
 

Mer5eywhite

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Do you grow up as a child dreaming of winning or making progress?

Dont get a trophy for ‘progress’

In sport you win or lose. Southgate has now lost 3 tournaments.
Made the last 4 in all 3 of them (Last 2 in this one). Beating Spain at home in a stadium where I believe they’d never previously lost.
 
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