Match Day - PNE v Sheffield Wednesday - 21/11/20 - KO:15:00 - Championship

Pilot

Forum Patron
Patron
My immediate reaction was red for the denying a goalscoring opportunity - but, on reflection, maybe Barkhuizen had pushed it too far ahead and the keeper would have got there.
I thought the opposite, my first reaction was yellow but having seen it again Barky would clearly have reached it first before the keeper
 

pnenycx

Forum Patron
Patron
Thought Pearson was very good today, his attacking instincts were in play.
We look a lot more likely to score when we run into the box with the ball than with crosses - blame it on the quality of crosses or the opposition defense packing the box but crosses rarely meet the head of our forwards.
 

Simply Sage

First Team
Fucking Rafferty I'm a big fan but he's got the whole of the pitch in front of him and knocks a ball inside.
Get the lad off and lets fucking go!
(Not having a go at you here California)

But, Rafferty - A defensive full back remember (so primarily a defender and clearly not a wing back - which I'm sure AN has either worked out by now or probably knew when he bought him) seems to take a disproportionate amount of stick. I expect that he is not assigned the same attacking role as Fisher - he's a different player. PNE do not have 2 Fishers. If Fisher is as good as some think, then I suspect the money isn't available to buy another one of him.

Rafferty's good defensive, positional and containment play is often ignored and any on the ball errors are magnified in their and documented on this forum by his detractors. I suspect they can only judge a player based on his play when in possession of the ball. Lots of what defenders do does not involve touching the ball and so some people don't see that so don't value it.

In the game today, a game where we had 75% possession and against 10 men for 82% of the game, I don't think his role was that critical but it seems some think the left back role is/was pivotal in PNE's inability to capitalise in that situation. I don't think we did much down the right either.

There are other players in the team who are deemed untouchable and who escape criticism. If we had 75% possession for 77 minutes against 10 men - what the f*ck were our midfield/forward players doing with the ball?

Today Rafferty managed to play a role in the sending off and made a goal-saving challenge in the first half. Had Fisher done that, some people would have said that he was was great because he had "shithoused' us a one man advantage, was a top defender in the league and was 'Man-of-the-Match'. Fisher was totally crap today and escaped the roasting others would have got had they been so ineffective.

Him and a few others.
 

California_PNE

Forum Patron
Patron
(Not having a go at you here California)

But, Rafferty - A defensive full back remember (so primarily a defender and clearly not a wing back - which I'm sure AN has either worked out by now or probably knew when he bought him) seems to take a disproportionate amount of stick. I expect that he is not assigned the same attacking role as Fisher - he's a different player. PNE do not have 2 Fishers. If Fisher is as good as some think, then I suspect the money isn't available to buy another one of him.

Rafferty's good defensive, positional and containment play is often ignored and any on the ball errors are magnified in their and documented on this forum by his detractors. I suspect they can only judge a player based on his play when in possession of the ball. Lots of what defenders do does not involve touching the ball and so some people don't see that so don't value it.

In the game today, a game where we had 75% possession and against 10 men for 82% of the game, I don't think his role was that critical but it seems some think the left back role is/was pivotal in PNE's inability to capitalise in that situation. I don't think we did much down the right either.

There are other players in the team who are deemed untouchable and who escape criticism. If we had 75% possession for 77 minutes against 10 men - what the f*ck were our midfield/forward players doing with the ball?

Today Rafferty managed to play a role in the sending off and made a goal-saving challenge in the first half. Had Fisher done that, some people would have said that he was was great because he had "shithoused' us a one man advantage, was a top defender in the league and was 'Man-of-the-Match'. Fisher was totally crap today and escaped the roasting others would have got had they been so ineffective.

Him and a few others.

I appreciate the post, you may not know this but I've been a defender of Rafferty throughout his time with us, whilst others simply don't like him at all and will never praise a decent performance from him, and there's been plenty - but too few at deepdale.

He was very poor I thought by his own standards today and I appreciate where you're coming from but when we need to break these teams down we can't be playing safe square balls to get rid of the ball and because we don't want to take any responsibility.
I cant give credit for being involved with a sending off also, there's literally nothing about that sort of circumstance which is praiseworthy, but it is a good point that if it was fisher it probs would be highly praised and described in some sort of exciting way, no doubt about it. But fisher is the best fullback at the club by a large distance no doubt about it.
 

sedgwick__7

Advisor to the Owner
(Not having a go at you here California)

But, Rafferty - A defensive full back remember (so primarily a defender and clearly not a wing back - which I'm sure AN has either worked out by now or probably knew when he bought him) seems to take a disproportionate amount of stick. I expect that he is not assigned the same attacking role as Fisher - he's a different player. PNE do not have 2 Fishers. If Fisher is as good as some think, then I suspect the money isn't available to buy another one of him.

Rafferty's good defensive, positional and containment play is often ignored and any on the ball errors are magnified in their and documented on this forum by his detractors. I suspect they can only judge a player based on his play when in possession of the ball. Lots of what defenders do does not involve touching the ball and so some people don't see that so don't value it.

In the game today, a game where we had 75% possession and against 10 men for 82% of the game, I don't think his role was that critical but it seems some think the left back role is/was pivotal in PNE's inability to capitalise in that situation. I don't think we did much down the right either.

There are other players in the team who are deemed untouchable and who escape criticism. If we had 75% possession for 77 minutes against 10 men - what the f*ck were our midfield/forward players doing with the ball?

Today Rafferty managed to play a role in the sending off and made a goal-saving challenge in the first half. Had Fisher done that, some people would have said that he was was great because he had "shithoused' us a one man advantage, was a top defender in the league and was 'Man-of-the-Match'. Fisher was totally crap today and escaped the roasting others would have got had they been so ineffective.

Him and a few others.
Fisher's crossing was definitely dreadful today but I wouldn't say he was "totally crap". It's not like he defended poorly (not that the defenders had much to do).

He was playing as a third centre back in the second half yet was still getting forward and attempting to put balls into the box. That's the type of aggression and energy we need from our full backs in home games against deep blocks, and none of our other full backs offer that. That's why people think he is so important, even if he end product wasn't good today. Perhaps Earl could offer something similar, but Neil clearly has no intention of using him at the moment.

I suspect this debate will rumble on and on and on until we eventually go into the transfer market for a full back. My view on it has always been that I don't doubt Rafferty or Hughes' work rates or competence off the ball, but at Deepdale when we have a load of possession and the other team are sat back, we need full backs who offer far more in possession than they do. Fisher is someone who can do that, Earl we don't really know. I would like to see Neil pressed/questioned on this a bit more because he whinges about a lack of balance at the back yet is leaving a left back on the bench who's just signed a new contract.

As for the rest of the team I agree there are a couple of other players aside from our full backs who struggle when we have all of the possession. That said whilst it was largely dire today we did create a couple of very good chances late on in the second half to finish things off. Pearson made a difference.
 

Simply Sage

First Team
I appreciate the post, you may not know this but I've been a defender of Rafferty throughout his time with us, whilst others simply don't like him at all and will never praise a decent performance from him, and there's been plenty - but too few at deepdale.

He was very poor I thought by his own standards today and I appreciate where you're coming from but when we need to break these teams down we can't be playing safe square balls to get rid of the ball and because we don't want to take any responsibility.
I cant give credit for being involved with a sending off also, there's literally nothing about that sort of circumstance which is praiseworthy, but it is a good point that if it was fisher it probs would be highly praised and described in some sort of exciting way, no doubt about it. But fisher is the best fullback at the club by a large distance no doubt about it.
Fair points.

No I wasn’t ‘praising’ the sending off thing (Raff was genuinely injured and it was, after all, a dangerous challenge) I was just making the point that had that been Fisher, there would have been praise from some for him ‘winning an advantage’ over the opposition in that situation. It’s the nonesense that adds to his ‘legend’. Some fans like that, I just don’t really.

Fisher apparently grabbed someone’s Gonads today (I missed the incident on IFollow) and I suspect it was the incident that drew the most posts in the game! if he did, that’s just Idiotic and risked a booking or worse for nothing.

Rafferty isn't that kind of player and the skills he has are more within what the Laws of the game permit.

Fishers good. One of our better players at his best. But he’s overrated by his fans. If he’s genuinely as good as some think and we are as average as we appear to be (well at the moment at least 😔) then no doubt he’ll be gone in January. But I don’t think that will happen (thankfully).

There are reasons he’s at PNE.
 

Simply Sage

First Team
The issue is, for Rafferty, that when they sit 10 men behind the ball, we need our full backs to push up and provide width, to stretch the play. If he doesn't do that, it makes us much easier to defend against, they simply outnumber our attackers.
I get that, really. But with 75% possession over 10 men for 77 minutes, Rafferty’s less advanced positioning on the left - alone - cannot explain our inability to put games like that to bed.

Our midfield must have had tons of the ball and
made little of that advantage for what was 82% of the 94 minutes. Wednesday only had a bit of a go in the last five mins.

My overall point here is that some people put the cross hairs on Raff at the exclusion of more compelling evidence of either a failing system or a number key players not producing.
 

djwoody

Manager
Must have watched a different second half. Gally got us playing, upped the tempo for a spell, switched play well, and kept it simple when needed. Just the usual north end fans struggling to accept someone in their 30s can be any good. Some on here would kick up a fuss if we signed Zlatan because he's "too old".
As a team performance it was utterly uninspiring and hard to watch, but Gally was not a major culprit at all.
 

California_PNE

Forum Patron
Patron
Fair points.

No I wasn’t ‘praising’ the sending off thing (Raff was genuinely injured and it was, after all, a dangerous challenge) I was just making the point that had that been Fisher, there would have been praise from some for him ‘winning an advantage’ over the opposition in that situation. It’s the nonesense that adds to his ‘legend’. Some fans like that, I just don’t really.

Fisher apparently grabbed someone’s Gonads today (I missed the incident on IFollow) and I suspect it was the incident that drew the most posts in the game! if he did, that’s just Idiotic and risked a booking or worse for nothing.

Rafferty isn't that kind of player and the skills he has are more within what the Laws of the game permit.

Fishers good. One of our better players at his best. But he’s overrated by his fans. If he’s genuinely as good as some think and we are as average as we appear to be (well at the moment at least 😔) then no doubt he’ll be gone in January. But I don’t think that will happen (thankfully).

There are reasons he’s at PNE.
I've had a similar debate, I think it was with @sedgwick__7, that it's unreasonable to have a go at Rafferty for not being able to do things which he frankly cannot do, were agreeing.
But taking everything into consideration I thought he was below his usual standard today, few things yeah he's no left peg but had chance to cross but pissed about gave it to Sinclair who gave it him back and he floated the ball out of play for a goal kick. His corners all of them were shite, no pace on the cross, always just floated into an area, numerous opportunities with no opponent near him to drive the ball up the left but shit out and cut back inside for an easy pass.
He's no good for us at home, doesn't have the skills to contribute to the attacks. Where as Huddersfield qpr reading he was fucking brilliant, solid, and did exactly what we needed.
 

sedgwick__7

Advisor to the Owner
I've had a similar debate, I think it was with @sedgwick__7, that it's unreasonable to have a go at Rafferty for not being able to do things which he frankly cannot do, were agreeing.
Yes, and my argument was that firstly not all criticism is personal or "having a go". And when a player has limitations, they will be commented upon, especially when the things people want Rafferty to do, which he can't, aren't actually that drastic or things that require world class ability.

What we need in that left back spot is someone who can do the offensive elements of the full back role that Rafferty and Hughes struggle badly with. Whether that lies within the squad or in the transfer market, I don't know, but that's my opinion and it isn't unreasonable to expect an upgrade on the standard of player that those two are. But there is no point talking about recruitment in this area at the moment because with 4 full backs under contract I don't think we will be investing in this area come January.

But questions need to be asked as to why Earl isn't even in with a shout at the moment, despite signing a new deal. Perhaps the manager doesn't really trust him defensively, but in home games I think he would offer us more balance and get up and down the left hand side a lot more than Rafferty.
 

Simply Sage

First Team
Fisher's crossing was definitely dreadful today but I wouldn't say he was "totally crap". It's not like he defended poorly (not that the defenders had much to do).

He was playing as a third centre back in the second half yet was still getting forward and attempting to put balls into the box. That's the type of aggression and energy we need from our full backs in home games against deep blocks, and none of our other full backs offer that. That's why people think he is so important, even if he end product wasn't good today. Perhaps Earl could offer something similar, but Neil clearly has no intention of using him at the moment.

I suspect this debate will rumble on and on and on until we eventually go into the transfer market for a full back. My view on it has always been that I don't doubt Rafferty or Hughes' work rates or competence off the ball, but at Deepdale when we have a load of possession and the other team are sat back, we need full backs who offer far more in possession than they do. Fisher is someone who can do that, Earl we don't really know. I would like to see Neil pressed/questioned on this a bit more because he whinges about a lack of balance at the back yet is leaving a left back on the bench who's just signed a new contract.

As for the rest of the team I agree there are a couple of other players aside from our full backs who struggle when we have all of the possession. That said whilst it was largely dire today we did create a couple of very good chances late on in the second half to finish things off. Pearson made a difference.
Ok maybe ‘crap’ was overstating Fisher’s performance today or was at least shorthand for ‘very ineffective’’. His crossing at least was certainly very, very poor.

But maybe my expectations of him have been raised by how much some venerate him on here. I do think he likes being involved in the action as you say. That’s great but I also think he does that at the expense of other things. At one point today he went gallivanting across the pitch deep in the opposition half after someone with the ball not really posing us any danger - but pulling our team right out of shape. If Raff had gave done that there would have been posts on here asking what the hell he was doing.

I don’t think Fisher has had a good enough season to have so much ‘in the bank’ with fans. He has poor games like other players, poor discipline and lots of injuries - and people still love him.

People talk about his ‘ceiling’. He’s 26. This is his ceiling.

if Earl was to come in, a few mistakes in his first few games and he’d be getting ripped to bits on here. I can recall what was being said about Ledson 12-18 months ago. I can recall the phrases ‘League One level” and “Limited” being used. Not sure where those posters are now.

You could see the Ledson was a decent player who just needed to settle in and gain the confidence he has now.

And a final note on Fisher - Reading the news tonight it maybe that the incident today with Paterson may not escape further scrutiny.
 

HunterLionheart

Advisor to the Owner
It's because we're miles better, as a team, when Fisher plays. He's not the perfect footballer or anything, but he's good defensively and he contributes going forwards. Underlaps, overlaps, little give and go passes. He is the only full back in our squad that a promotion chasing team would comfortably start and not consider a weakness.
 

Simply Sage

First Team
I've had a similar debate, I think it was with @sedgwick__7, that it's unreasonable to have a go at Rafferty for not being able to do things which he frankly cannot do, were agreeing.
But taking everything into consideration I thought he was below his usual standard today, few things yeah he's no left peg but had chance to cross but pissed about gave it to Sinclair who gave it him back and he floated the ball out of play for a goal kick. His corners all of them were shite, no pace on the cross, always just floated into an area, numerous opportunities with no opponent near him to drive the ball up the left but shit out and cut back inside for an easy pass.
He's no good for us at home, doesn't have the skills to contribute to the attacks. Where as Huddersfield qpr reading he was fucking brilliant, solid, and did exactly what we needed.
Fair points again.

I just don’t like the prejudice some people have. Drives me nuts. Their favouritism protects some players and cocks a blind eye to their “limitations” whilst putting other players under the microscope every game. Potts for instance has had some really good games this season but today you’d have thought he’d been drafted in from a Sunday League team.

There are maybe four players at PNE that are basically accepted by most as being ‘good enough’ and are not roundly criticised - but just about every other player that makes it into the team gets called ‘Limited’ or ‘League One level’ every time he misplaces a pass, let’s in a goal or misses a chance.

Last year Rudd took some awful undeserved stick. So did Ledson. This year they are two of our best players.

There is also this idea (whilst I’m having a rant 😂) that the transfer targets we didn’t get were the right ones and would have been brilliant had they come to Deepdale! Rafferty often gets the “We really wanted Callum Johnson” nonsense. Callum Johnson went to (League One) Portsmouth and has still never played a game in the Championship (why - so did we really miss out then?) Yes I agree, we may want a marauding wing back - but we clearly won’t shell out for one.

Raff is approaching his 50th game for PNE and some knob today posted he’s ‘not a Championship player’. After 50 games if he’s not a Championship player then we can’t be a Champion club can we (and we definitely are top half at least).

Prejudice over evidence again.

👍
 
Top