Match Day - PNE v Stoke City - 28/09/21 - KO:19:45 - Championship

Thracia

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I mean it just makes them shit plans.

It was basically the same shape, with wingbacks, Maguire dropping deep, but I see your point.

You have to take results on their own merits, IMO. Drawing against a better side is something of a positive. Same reason I was fine with a point against WBA and Sheff U.

That said, I think this was our most undeserved point, so performance wise it was more concerning. Question has got to be why Stoke were so much better than us? Because they were, and Frankie knew it by the end of the game, hence he clearly decided to shut up shop.
I think Frankie knew it by half time!

Ultimately, Stoke are better because they have a billionaire owner who doesn't recruit key players from the proven-injury-prone "buy at your own risk" bargain bin.

But FM doesn't help himself when he fails to start McCann because (it seems) he can't make the difficult decision of proactively dropping one of his midfielders.

Being happy to draw because the opposition were the better team seems a pretty low bar to me, because when we do decide to shut up shop and punt those long balls to no one, most teams look better than us. It becomes self-fulfilling.
 

bobbydavro

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Unlike our other recent draws last night was a lucky one and it now gives Frankie a chance to make some changes without anyone feeling too aggrieved.
we were lucky against west brom, sheffield and stoke imo...all 3 of those they were the better team, with more chances and we got lucky

the worry is we are playing such negative/defensive football and setting up to not lose, we are then having to get lucky to draw. The formation is my biggest issue, we don't have the players to play it, we can't even fit sinclair, barky, murphy into the team as is without playing them out of position. Last night we had a LB at CB and he was caught out.

For me we need to change formation or change manager to someone who can get more out of the players we have. I'd like to see mcavoy succeed but at the moment he appears to be stubbornly shoving round pegs in square holes to prove a point....or indeed win a point.

and the riis throw is embarrasing, how has it come that...shite!
 

Dreyfuss

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and the riis throw is embarrasing, how has it come that...shite!
Last night two of our best openings came from long throws. Ledson blazed wide from one in first half when he should have at least got it on target and in the second half one ended up flicked on to back post six yards out and we fluffed getting a shot away.
 

bobbydavro

Advisor to the Owner
Last night two of our best openings came from long throws. Ledson blazed wide from one in first half when he should have at least got it on target and in the second half one ended up flicked on to back post six yards out and we fluffed getting a shot away.
i know why hes doing it, but its fucking awful to watch, its like john becks back...i dont want to watch it, i certainly dont want us to play like that.
 

Meldrew's Ghost

Advisor to the Owner
I don't understand why we had a few games of playing decent football, passing it on the ground and getting DJ involved, and have then switched back to the predominantly hoofball approach since the kick off in the West Brom game.

I can understand why we used it against the Baggies, but that seems to have triggered an AN mentality in Frankie Mc since then. If he doesn't think that we can play it out from the back when we are playing 3-5-2 then God help us.

On another note, the suggestion that Storey is carrying a back injury is worrying. If Hughes' injury keeps him out then we could be really stretched defensively.
 

Yoowell

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The crux of this formation thing for me is that if we go to a back four we haven’t got a good enough left sided CB to play next to Bauer…..so we will have to stick to a back three.
The problem arises when the back 3 becomes a back 5 and the two midfielders sit deep giving us only 3 offensive players.
That’s what Stoke did to us last night and we didn’t have an answer for it.
 

simo

Advisor to the Owner
The crux of this formation thing for me is that if we go to a back four we haven’t got a good enough left sided CB to play next to Bauer…..so we will have to stick to a back three.
The problem arises when the back 3 becomes a back 5 and the two midfielders sit deep giving us only 3 offensive players.
That’s what Stoke did to us last night and we didn’t have an answer for it.
The used largely the same setup as us. The difference is they did a better job of it. In particualt VDB was given a hard time and Earl struggled to get involved attacking wise. Add Whiteman and Ledson being disappointing with the ball and tired without it and its no wonder we end up going long a lot of the time.

People need realise its not a choice to sit back and play defensively and that there are two teams on the pitch - we started the game trying to move the ball progressively and control the game as much as Stoke did and came out second best because they played better than we did. Simple as that.

Given the defensive frailties outlined above and current lack of attacking options we don't have a viable plan B as far as formation is concerned so its a case of shuffling deckchairs about. On last nights evidence its a case of stop our wing backs and you stop us. Given that they are still both pretty inexperienced at this level its a worrying situation - its all very well and good having a settled formation and idea of how we're going to play but there needs to be some flexibility beyond throwing another midfielder on just because we've got loads of them.
 

grarmy

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I think problem with current formation is it doesn’t suit a lot of our better players - Sinclair, Barky, Greg, Browne - but does suit our arguably weaker players Earl, Hughes, Lindsay
 

Dreyfuss

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I don't understand why we had a few games of playing decent football, passing it on the ground and getting DJ involved, and have then switched back to the predominantly hoofball approach since the kick off in the West Brom game.
We will very, very, very rarely play two teams at Deepdale like Swansea and Peterborough who played wide open football with little attacking threat.

We could press both of them at will, force errors and have tonnes of room to exploit when we got the ball. That simply isn't gonna happen against most sides in the division.

Playing the same starting xi week in week out, also leaves very few surprises for the opposition. But coupled with that, the attacking options we have on the bench or injury list - Barky, Sinclair, Murphy, Potts - none of them suit 352.

Evans and Riis as a partnership has never really looked like working either. Riis wants fast through balls to run into. Evans wants to be back to goal and direct balls pinged at him. They don't seem to gel at all.

With injury enigmas Izzy and Wicham hobbled for the season, our options are just severely limited.

Without Iverson heroics things would be looking very bleak right now.
 

jamesOB

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I think problem with current formation is it doesn’t suit a lot of our better players - Sinclair, Barky, Greg, Browne - but does suit our arguably weaker players Earl, Hughes, Lindsay
Sinclair and Browne shown nothing for months, Earl and Hughes arguably the two best performers this season outside of DJ and Iversen, and Lindsay nowhere near the squad

Absolutely not the problem
 

rem

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I think its just a case of rotating things a bit, freshens things up physically and mentally. Part of the issue last night was us not having any sort of control in the middle, both Ledson and Whiteman were a bit off it, not careful enough in possession and that created pressure for when we didn't have it.

Also think that Evans would have been ideal last night - far more capable of occupying defenders physically and holding the ball up + the ability to shit-house a free-kick or two when required (although, to be fair, the ref was more than generous to us!)
We are definitely missing Evans to partner Riis
 

FootballcrazyP_

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It wasn’t a criticism of the commentary- and well done everyone who does it!!! Just don’t tell me we’ve conceded when we haven’t, it’s painful enough!!
You picked a post about Blackpool and Blackburn conceding which happened very close together. I made no mistakes last night nor did any services I use. I can't help when they do. But if you don't want to see mistakes I suggest staying a few pages behind, because I do update quickly as soon as I get it and every now and then the other services get it wrong. Also note that the West Brom game, both flash scores and Sofascore got it wrong and they quicker than me because betting sites use them. Errors happen, I can't stop them, because I'm not at the games seeing it live. End of. Have a good Evening
 

rem

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Cunningham looked sharper than he did in pre-season and though I think Earl should continue as left wing-back I would not be as apprehensive as I might have been a few weeks back if Cunningham had to slot in there for a match or two. But if Hughes is fit again for the week-end then I would guess he will return on the left of the back three.
Cunningham is a better wing back than full back and is probably more direct than Earl who passes sideways and backwards too much. However Earl is the future and he will hopefully continue to improve
 

jamesOB

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We are definitely missing Evans to partner Riis
We’ve tried them as a partnership a few times, and it just doesn’t work. They end up getting on top of each other and our attacks break down, assuming we’ve not spent the game punting it at Evans
 

mapping

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I mean it just makes them shit plans.

It was basically the same shape, with wingbacks, Maguire dropping deep, but I see your point.

You have to take results on their own merits, IMO. Drawing against a better side is something of a positive. Same reason I was fine with a point against WBA and Sheff U.

That said, I think this was our most undeserved point, so performance wise it was more concerning. Question has got to be why Stoke were so much better than us? Because they were, and Frankie knew it by the end of the game, hence he clearly decided to shut up shop.
First time on last night since covid , we couldn't string 3 passes together ! There was no lack of effort which was encouraging, but Christ that was poor !
 

Lee Trundle

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I think problem with current formation is it doesn’t suit a lot of our better players - Sinclair, Barky, Greg, Browne - but does suit our arguably weaker players Earl, Hughes, Lindsay

Not a bad point to be honest, we simply have to have an option to play a back 4, otherwise everyone will have us worked out by Christmas. But it would be bizarre to drop our player of the season in Hughes and a strong contender for second place for that award in Earl.

Also Sinclair is very inconsistent, Browne is complete trash and has been for years, Greg played earlier on in the season and showed that whilst he can still be an excellent squad player, he no longer is worthy of starting week in week out
 

rem

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We’ve tried them as a partnership a few times, and it just doesn’t work. They end up getting on top of each other and our attacks break down, assuming we’ve not spent the game punting it at Evans
I think it will work as Riis is more confident now and a better player now, both tactically and skilfully, and he will learn quickly how to avoid playing too close to Evans.
Evans hold up play and aerial ability will be a step up from Maguire who admittedly has done well but is never going to score the goals which Evans is capable of
 
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