Operating loss

Minty pne

Forum Patron
Patron
I appreciate the facts in front of your face can be a bit inconvenient but my friend there are none so blind as those who will not see. Thanks for your insightful offering.
Yeah, there's nothing wrong with my offering. Even without Hemmings we wouldn't be a Bolton or Bury. I'm right.
 

Doc Brown

Advisor to the Owner
Oh and while you are shouting Bolton I'll see you with Burnley

Why?

Prior to winning promotion to the Premier League in 2009, Burnley's modus operandi regards transfers and spending was virtually identical to ours. And in the same decade, that approach provided provided both clubs with a shot at the Premier League via a play off final.

The reason for the divergence in the two clubs fortunes in the decade after is Burnley won their generation-defining final in 2009, allowing the transformation of the club modus operandi due to the inherited Premier League war chest, and we didn't win ours in 2001/05.

It is misleading to suggest it was shrewd investment of significant cash that got The Dingles promoted in 2009. It is widely cited that Burnley's finances were all over the show and the club would have been up shit creek had they not won promotion that year.

It's only after they got their foot in the door of the Premier League were they able to start spending significantly at this level.
 

Doc Brown

Advisor to the Owner
Ah, the good old Bolton or Bury comment. :sleep::sleep:

When predicting what the future of PNE might look like without Hemmings ownership, I'd say parallels drawn with cautionary tales like Bury and Bolton are as valid as aspirational ones like Wigan and Blackburn.
 

Doc Brown

Advisor to the Owner
I think criticism of the amount of money Hemmings has put in is misguided and he will have to continue this level most probably.

Criticism of how and when this money has been spent is perfectly valid. Staff costs (i.e. wages) have risen from £14.5m to £19.2m - 32%, a massive increase. Problem is, most of this is probably keeping up with the Jones.

I'm torn. He's basically paying for us to watch championship football as opposed to league 1 or 2 football. We should be grateful but the seeming lack of willingness to positively push for me when we aren't far away in combination with the massive training ground PR shambles is maddening.

Great post.

Your final paragraph pretty much summarises my feelings on this conundrum.
 

FredElseFlyer

Forum Patron
Patron
Why?

Prior to winning promotion to the Premier League in 2009, Burnley's modus operandi regards transfers and spending was virtually identical to ours. And in the same decade, that approach provided provided both clubs with a shot at the Premier League via a play off final.

The reason for the divergence in the two clubs fortunes in the decade after is Burnley won their generation-defining final in 2009, allowing the transformation of the club modus operandi due to the inherited Premier League war chest, and we didn't win ours in 2001/05.

It is misleading to suggest it was shrewd investment of significant cash that got The Dingles promoted in 2009. It is widely cited that Burnley's finances were all over the show and the club would have been up shit creek had they not won promotion that year.

It's only after they got their foot in the door of the Premier League were they able to start spending significantly at this level.
That’s the point for goodness sake 🙄
 

Doc Brown

Advisor to the Owner
That’s the point for goodness sake 🙄

Hailing Burnley's first promotion to the Premier League as a monument to shrewd financial investment, and therefore a success story we should mirror, is not valid. They just got lucky and cashed their lottery ticket in 2009.
 

Realistic

Manager
I haven't looked at the fair play rules too closely, to be honest, so I don't know. Others will know better. Hemmings won't put a foot wrong in that way, though, I'm fairly sure about that.
 

chorleythehord

Forum Patron
Patron
Hailing Burnley's first promotion to the Premier League as a monument to shrewd financial investment, and therefore a success story we should mirror, is not valid. They just got lucky and cashed their lottery ticket in 2009.

Correct. They had not invested anywhere near has much as us in the playing squad ( nor had Blackpool under the Oystons , who did it mainly with loanees) , they just had the luck and fortune ( a season without any major injuries for instance) to click at the right time and get up, whereas it never happened for us.

We could have beaten Bolton. We should have beaten West Ham. Defining moments of my generation. My dads were the cup final defeats v West Brom and West Ham, and twice being runners up in the league to Arsenal by the finest of margins . Similar tales of nearly men, whereas other clubs got over the line in their glory years. Finney went a full career without a major trophy. Anyone trying to convince me our club is not cursed has a struggle on their hands.

Back to Hemmings. I’m not going to defend the training ground fiasco, but I do think the strategy is broadly right, given the parameters of how much he wants to invest per year, which appears to be capped at £6m a year.

These are great times for our club, which we’d be enjoying so much more if it wasnt for our history of being nearly men, and the Fact that everyone else has had their glory and we never have.

I don’t realistically see anyone willing to put £7m a year or more in. I respect those who are “ Hemmings out” because they don’t like the way the club is being run, I just disagree with them. Sadly, i think if they get their way, and we do have a change of ownership, many of them will not hang around to support the club if we drop down the leagues.

I think improved communication and some attempts to create a better fan experience would go a long way to improving supporter morale.
 
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Severiano

Reserve
Correct. They had not invested anywhere near has much as us in the playing squad ( nor had Blackpool under the Oystons , who did it mainly with loanees) , they just had the luck and fortune ( a season without any major injuries for instance) to click at the right time and get up, whereas it never happened for us.

We could have beaten Bolton. We should have beaten West Ham. Defining moments of my generation. My dads were the cup final defeats v West Brom and West Ham, and twice being runners up in the league to Arsenal by the finest of margins . Similar tales of nearly men, whereas other clubs got over the line in their glory years. Finney went a full career without a major trophy. Anyone trying to convince me our club is not cursed has a struggle on their hands.

Back to Hemmings. I’m not going to defend the training ground fiasco, but I do think the strategy is broadly right, given the parameters of how much he wants to invest per year, which appears to be capped at £6m a year.

These are great times for our club, which we’d be enjoying so much more if it wasnt for our history of being nearly men, and the Fact that everyone else has had their glory and we never have.

I don’t realistically see anyone willing to put £7m a year or more in. I respect those who are “ Hemmings out” because they don’t like the way the club is being run, I just disagree with them. Sadly, i think if they get their way, and we do have a change of ownership, many of them will not hang around to support the club if we drop down the leagues.

I think improved communication and some attempts to create a better fan experience would go a long way to improving supporter morale.
Very good post
 

Rubadub

Forum Patron
Patron
Just scrolled through this thread to see if this had been clarified, it seems not - where does this leave us in terms of FFP? The last time I looked at it, the rules stated that a club could lose up to £39m over a rolling 3 year period. In simple terms, we've lost £14.3m over 1 year, so we must improve on this in the next 2 years otherwise we will have lost over £42m over 3 years, meaning we will be in breach of FFP.

Clearly this won't happen as we will either get promoted or shift on our best players at the end of this season, but to me it underlines the fact that whilst we stay outside the Premier League we simply have to sell our best players to survive in the Championship.
 

Mickypne

Advisor to the Owner
Just scrolled through this thread to see if this had been clarified, it seems not - where does this leave us in terms of FFP? The last time I looked at it, the rules stated that a club could lose up to £39m over a rolling 3 year period. In simple terms, we've lost £14.3m over 1 year, so we must improve on this in the next 2 years otherwise we will have lost over £42m over 3 years, meaning we will be in breach of FFP.

Clearly this won't happen as we will either get promoted or shift on our best players at the end of this season, but to me it underlines the fact that whilst we stay outside the Premier League we simply have to sell our best players to survive in the Championship.
It will be improved on, the Summer sale is coming.
 

LancasterRed

Mad Scientist
Just scrolled through this thread to see if this had been clarified, it seems not - where does this leave us in terms of FFP? The last time I looked at it, the rules stated that a club could lose up to £39m over a rolling 3 year period. In simple terms, we've lost £14.3m over 1 year, so we must improve on this in the next 2 years otherwise we will have lost over £42m over 3 years, meaning we will be in breach of FFP.

Clearly this won't happen as we will either get promoted or shift on our best players at the end of this season, but to me it underlines the fact that whilst we stay outside the Premier League we simply have to sell our best players to survive in the Championship.

FFP won't be a problem. Next financial period we'll be in a fair bit of profit anyway IMO because of either promotion or summer departures, as you said.

Only concern with selling our best players is not replacing them, or adapting the system to utilise what will be our new best 11.
 

PNEESSEX

Forum Patron
Patron
It will be improved on, the Summer sale is coming.
Next year's financial statements will include the income from the sale of Robinson. Whether they will include the income from the 2020 summer sale will depend entirely on when the business is done and whether it happens before or after the end of the accounting period.
 

jakehake

Preachs PA
Staff member
Patron
FFP won't be a problem. Next financial period we'll be in a fair bit of profit anyway IMO because of either promotion or summer departures, as you said.

Only concern with selling our best players is not replacing them, or adapting the system to utilise what will be our new best 11.
Summer departures will be the following financial period not the current one. Robinson May well be the only one in this current financial year
 

Pilot

Manager
An interest-free loan to yourself is not really a debt, except possibly for tax purposes.

Similarly a "loss" which is actually an interest-free loan to yourself is not really a "loss" - except possibly for tax purposes.
It’s not actually a loss for tax purposes either, you don’t get tax relief for lending money to a connected company
 
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