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Operating loss

Tuesday Nights said:
I appreciate the facts in front of your face can be a bit inconvenient but my friend there are none so blind as those who will not see. Thanks for your insightful offering.
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Yeah, there's nothing wrong with my offering. Even without Hemmings we wouldn't be a Bolton or Bury. I'm right.
 
FredElseFlyer said:
Oh and while you are shouting Bolton I'll see you with Burnley
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Why?

Prior to winning promotion to the Premier League in 2009, Burnley's modus operandi regards transfers and spending was virtually identical to ours. And in the same decade, that approach provided provided both clubs with a shot at the Premier League via a play off final.

The reason for the divergence in the two clubs fortunes in the decade after is Burnley won their generation-defining final in 2009, allowing the transformation of the club modus operandi due to the inherited Premier League war chest, and we didn't win ours in 2001/05.

It is misleading to suggest it was shrewd investment of significant cash that got The Dingles promoted in 2009. It is widely cited that Burnley's finances were all over the show and the club would have been up shit creek had they not won promotion that year.

It's only after they got their foot in the door of the Premier League were they able to start spending significantly at this level.
 
Minty pne said:
Ah, the good old Bolton or Bury comment. :sleep::sleep:
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When predicting what the future of PNE might look like without Hemmings ownership, I'd say parallels drawn with cautionary tales like Bury and Bolton are as valid as aspirational ones like Wigan and Blackburn.
 
simo said:
I think criticism of the amount of money Hemmings has put in is misguided and he will have to continue this level most probably.

Criticism of how and when this money has been spent is perfectly valid. Staff costs (i.e. wages) have risen from £14.5m to £19.2m - 32%, a massive increase. Problem is, most of this is probably keeping up with the Jones.

I'm torn. He's basically paying for us to watch championship football as opposed to league 1 or 2 football. We should be grateful but the seeming lack of willingness to positively push for me when we aren't far away in combination with the massive training ground PR shambles is maddening.
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Great post.

Your final paragraph pretty much summarises my feelings on this conundrum.
 
Doc Brown said:
Why?

Prior to winning promotion to the Premier League in 2009, Burnley's modus operandi regards transfers and spending was virtually identical to ours. And in the same decade, that approach provided provided both clubs with a shot at the Premier League via a play off final.

The reason for the divergence in the two clubs fortunes in the decade after is Burnley won their generation-defining final in 2009, allowing the transformation of the club modus operandi due to the inherited Premier League war chest, and we didn't win ours in 2001/05.

It is misleading to suggest it was shrewd investment of significant cash that got The Dingles promoted in 2009. It is widely cited that Burnley's finances were all over the show and the club would have been up shit creek had they not won promotion that year.

It's only after they got their foot in the door of the Premier League were they able to start spending significantly at this level.
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That’s the point for goodness sake 🙄
 
FredElseFlyer said:
That’s the point for goodness sake 🙄
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Hailing Burnley's first promotion to the Premier League as a monument to shrewd financial investment, and therefore a success story we should mirror, is not valid. They just got lucky and cashed their lottery ticket in 2009.
 
John T said:
Well IF the figures are True

I would like to know how he is doing that under the 'fair play' rules
It seem to me not much different than what the Man City Owners are doing for their Club and the trouble that is causing

Could one way be by buying up all the unfilled seats at matches I wonder, that could be regarded as Income even if The Owners were actually paying for them
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I haven't looked at the fair play rules too closely, to be honest, so I don't know. Others will know better. Hemmings won't put a foot wrong in that way, though, I'm fairly sure about that.
 
Doc Brown said:
Hailing Burnley's first promotion to the Premier League as a monument to shrewd financial investment, and therefore a success story we should mirror, is not valid. They just got lucky and cashed their lottery ticket in 2009.
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Correct. They had not invested anywhere near has much as us in the playing squad ( nor had Blackpool under the Oystons , who did it mainly with loanees) , they just had the luck and fortune ( a season without any major injuries for instance) to click at the right time and get up, whereas it never happened for us.

We could have beaten Bolton. We should have beaten West Ham. Defining moments of my generation. My dads were the cup final defeats v West Brom and West Ham, and twice being runners up in the league to Arsenal by the finest of margins . Similar tales of nearly men, whereas other clubs got over the line in their glory years. Finney went a full career without a major trophy. Anyone trying to convince me our club is not cursed has a struggle on their hands.

Back to Hemmings. I’m not going to defend the training ground fiasco, but I do think the strategy is broadly right, given the parameters of how much he wants to invest per year, which appears to be capped at £6m a year.

These are great times for our club, which we’d be enjoying so much more if it wasnt for our history of being nearly men, and the Fact that everyone else has had their glory and we never have.

I don’t realistically see anyone willing to put £7m a year or more in. I respect those who are “ Hemmings out” because they don’t like the way the club is being run, I just disagree with them. Sadly, i think if they get their way, and we do have a change of ownership, many of them will not hang around to support the club if we drop down the leagues.

I think improved communication and some attempts to create a better fan experience would go a long way to improving supporter morale.
 
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chorleythehord said:
Correct. They had not invested anywhere near has much as us in the playing squad ( nor had Blackpool under the Oystons , who did it mainly with loanees) , they just had the luck and fortune ( a season without any major injuries for instance) to click at the right time and get up, whereas it never happened for us.

We could have beaten Bolton. We should have beaten West Ham. Defining moments of my generation. My dads were the cup final defeats v West Brom and West Ham, and twice being runners up in the league to Arsenal by the finest of margins . Similar tales of nearly men, whereas other clubs got over the line in their glory years. Finney went a full career without a major trophy. Anyone trying to convince me our club is not cursed has a struggle on their hands.

Back to Hemmings. I’m not going to defend the training ground fiasco, but I do think the strategy is broadly right, given the parameters of how much he wants to invest per year, which appears to be capped at £6m a year.

These are great times for our club, which we’d be enjoying so much more if it wasnt for our history of being nearly men, and the Fact that everyone else has had their glory and we never have.

I don’t realistically see anyone willing to put £7m a year or more in. I respect those who are “ Hemmings out” because they don’t like the way the club is being run, I just disagree with them. Sadly, i think if they get their way, and we do have a change of ownership, many of them will not hang around to support the club if we drop down the leagues.

I think improved communication and some attempts to create a better fan experience would go a long way to improving supporter morale.
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Very good post
 
Just scrolled through this thread to see if this had been clarified, it seems not - where does this leave us in terms of FFP? The last time I looked at it, the rules stated that a club could lose up to £39m over a rolling 3 year period. In simple terms, we've lost £14.3m over 1 year, so we must improve on this in the next 2 years otherwise we will have lost over £42m over 3 years, meaning we will be in breach of FFP.

Clearly this won't happen as we will either get promoted or shift on our best players at the end of this season, but to me it underlines the fact that whilst we stay outside the Premier League we simply have to sell our best players to survive in the Championship.
 
Rubadub said:
Just scrolled through this thread to see if this had been clarified, it seems not - where does this leave us in terms of FFP? The last time I looked at it, the rules stated that a club could lose up to £39m over a rolling 3 year period. In simple terms, we've lost £14.3m over 1 year, so we must improve on this in the next 2 years otherwise we will have lost over £42m over 3 years, meaning we will be in breach of FFP.

Clearly this won't happen as we will either get promoted or shift on our best players at the end of this season, but to me it underlines the fact that whilst we stay outside the Premier League we simply have to sell our best players to survive in the Championship.
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It will be improved on, the Summer sale is coming.
 
Rubadub said:
Just scrolled through this thread to see if this had been clarified, it seems not - where does this leave us in terms of FFP? The last time I looked at it, the rules stated that a club could lose up to £39m over a rolling 3 year period. In simple terms, we've lost £14.3m over 1 year, so we must improve on this in the next 2 years otherwise we will have lost over £42m over 3 years, meaning we will be in breach of FFP.

Clearly this won't happen as we will either get promoted or shift on our best players at the end of this season, but to me it underlines the fact that whilst we stay outside the Premier League we simply have to sell our best players to survive in the Championship.
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FFP won't be a problem. Next financial period we'll be in a fair bit of profit anyway IMO because of either promotion or summer departures, as you said.

Only concern with selling our best players is not replacing them, or adapting the system to utilise what will be our new best 11.
 
Mickypne said:
It will be improved on, the Summer sale is coming.
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Next year's financial statements will include the income from the sale of Robinson. Whether they will include the income from the 2020 summer sale will depend entirely on when the business is done and whether it happens before or after the end of the accounting period.
 
LancasterRed said:
FFP won't be a problem. Next financial period we'll be in a fair bit of profit anyway IMO because of either promotion or summer departures, as you said.

Only concern with selling our best players is not replacing them, or adapting the system to utilise what will be our new best 11.
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Summer departures will be the following financial period not the current one. Robinson May well be the only one in this current financial year
 
Thracia said:
An interest-free loan to yourself is not really a debt, except possibly for tax purposes.

Similarly a "loss" which is actually an interest-free loan to yourself is not really a "loss" - except possibly for tax purposes.
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It’s not actually a loss for tax purposes either, you don’t get tax relief for lending money to a connected company
 
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