PNE Online
Welcome to PNE-Online. Why not register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox! You can also join up as a forum Patron to help support in the running costs of the forum.

CONFIRMED PNE Supporters Meeting Minutes - 16/11/22 (Response to open letter).

Good old North End all talk no action Thanks to the fans who tried Looks like we are stuck with a tent leaking roof and a squad of frees and loans and having to put up with our best players being sold because we stick within our budget and anyway we aren’t allowed to put more money in Yet everyone else seems to be able to Oh and blame the managers
Thanks to all those who attended, very thorough line of questioning.

Can't help but feel that a @Thracia or @Dreyfuss type there wouldn't have let some of the flimsy responses go unchecked.

The bloated squad is an issue almost entirely of the creation of PR. He does not deserve credit for 'solving' his own problem.

Also the academy piece is total bollocks. If it is costing £1.2m a year, and has produced 2 or 3 championship quality footballers in the last 15 years, then either improve it or shut it down. Don't just dither
The ownership want to set a yearly budget for all club operations from RWB's to leaky roofs to improving on a non league tent on a car park. And systematically put a line through them all and call it job done, whilst quickly glossing over their own billionaire status.

The minutes largely reads as if anyone else might as well have not been in the room. Leaving PR and CH compiling an extra long version of one of their yearly sermons without interference.

It's clear the minutes are there for the eyes of Joe public. The folk who'll have previously read "the Hemmings put £12m in every year" and slunk away without querying whether it's true or not.

The Hemmings can afford a permanent fanzone but they'll drag their feet on it as long as possible, until they can sell the club or find the absolute cheapest possible solution.

Which is exactly the same strategy as what they did with a RWB. The solution found was to not bother signing one and call it a strategy.
Just had a read through all that.

Its clear to me that the Hemmings family are prepared to put in X amount of money per season, its a lot of money granted and its appreciated by me personally but it is clear as day they have no intention of trying to find a way to invest more to make us more competitive on the pitch and less of a shambles off it (Deepdale maintenance, fan zone etc).

My major concern is that this budget will be decreased year on year.

They could easily do so and stay within FFP, I'm not talking about pumping in tens of millions because you can only push so far with it clearly but there are ways round it.

Just looks like nothing much is going to change and our only hope if you can call it that is a fluke season where everything aligns and we manage to scrape promotion.
I need to read it in more depth but seems like the usual PR twaddle too me. After RL came out multiple times in the summer and said he wants a new RWB and ST, I find it very hard to believe he was happy with the squad.

One thing that doesn't make sense is why would AN want to give Harrop a new contract? He barely started under AN and when Harrop hit a decent bit of form, AN literally took him out of the side as soon as he could. Really don't think he was a fan and I really don't think it would have been his decision to do so. Weird thing to lie about.

In relation to Dolan, why are we allowing AN to decide on our youth players? Surely, surely people saw the potential? Literally 3 months after he left he was scoring against us and backflipping. Either, his ability quadrupled overnight, or we are unable to spot talent. I'm probably going for the latter.
I've wasted an hour reading through that statement, and the only term that springs to mind is, Deja-Vu. The individual forum representitives did the best they could given the resources available (ie input/ideas from forum members, etc) but, the lack of anything constructive comes from only one place, PNEFC.
Thanks to all those who attended, very thorough line of questioning.

Can't help but feel that a @Thracia or @Dreyfuss type there wouldn't have let some of the flimsy responses go unchecked.

The bloated squad is an issue almost entirely of the creation of PR. He does not deserve credit for 'solving' his own problem.

Also the academy piece is total bollocks. If it is costing £1.2m a year, and has produced 2 or 3 championship quality footballers in the last 15 years, then either improve it or shut it down. Don't just dither
It’s difficult I guess to make the minutes totally reflective of the meeting. I can tell you that responses were most certainly not unchecked. In fact for the first hour of the meeting, there were frank exchanges on recruitment where responses were rebutted by supporters. That theme did continue throughout the meeting. It lasted nearly 3 hours.
The point you made on the Academy was pointed out by myself also illustrating that our neighbours to the east have had far more success in developing their own talent that’s established in first team football. It’s touched on in the minutes
As expected Ridsdale has shown that he would make a good used car/double glazing salesman.

Trouble is he takes credit when things tick along nicely but won't take any responsibility for all his cock ups. I bet there wasn't a sign at the training ground office door saying THE BUCK STOPS HERE. No doubt he's spent the past few days patting his own back and wringing his hands together on a job well done

Thanks to all those who organised/attended the meeting - do you feel that it was worth the effort or do you feel nothing will change?
Based on the minutes we have learned almost nothing new which is disappointing. It'd be useful to hear a bit more from people in the room, if they are able to say anything?
Lack of ambition is alarming.

The "plan" is to do the minimum needed to be "competitive" (mid table) in the division and hope to get lucky somehow and finish top 6.

With this lot in charge of our club we are destined to be the beigest club in the world. Purely there to exist and not get above our station
Made a few notes while reading through - overall, I don't think the club has convinced anyone that there's a plan or strategy at play here, other than the one we all know about - minimise costs, stay in the Championship, keep getting the Prem/EFL cash.

Well done to all attendees for making the meeting possible - just because the result is disappointing doesn't mean the engagement wasn't worthwhile, or that it shouldn't be repeated on a regular basis - in addition to those fans forums that CH doesn't seem keen on.

p. 4: The obvious conclusion from the discussion on the summer budget is, it must have been too small, if "Lowe" (funnily enough absent from the meeting and copping a lot of the blame here) used it all up on those few players we did sign, after we had got rid of so many, freeing up so many wages.

Taking money for paying off the likes of Harrop, Earl and Bayliss out of the transfer budget seems a dubious approach to building a squad - those costs, ultimately the result of failed signings made by the club under previous managers, need to borne by the club as exceptional costs, not skimmed off the top of the transfer budget of a new manager with squad places to fill.

p. 7: The authorship of the minutes is betrayed when you see purely subjective terms popping up in what should be a neutrally-toned document: "PR outlined the six Academy players now getting valuable loan experience" is a classic among many examples.

p. 7: "CH questioned where the funds would come from to increase the yearly cost of the Academy and the £5m investment to just get to Category 2" - well, from the club owners of course! That's precisely the sort of thing club owners should be investing in. How were they going to fund the Ingol development and corresponding Academy, to be opened August 2018 as originally planned?

p. 8: Enjoyed the nonsensical strategy outlined by CH that suggests we'll be in a position to improve our squad, infrastructure and Academy in order to get to the Prem, just as soon as we receive the money that we'll get following our promotion to the Prem!

p. 10: "PR stated that the Premier League will aim to implement a maximum wage to turnover ratio in every Championship club should the [proposed new Prem] redistribution happen" - yep, and that will leave us, with our piss-poor turnover, in the clarts, but will leave the owners in the clear, as they won't be able to bolster the wage bill ahead of turnover.

For us, I think the new Prem distribution will mean extra austerity for the club, but less for the Hemmings to put in each year, which is presumably why they're such big fans of it.

This point needs to be pushed at future meetings, because at the moment the new Prem distribution is being painted as a big win-win - but it won't be a win for us, with our lame turnover compared to our peers, and clearly no impetus from the owners to improve that turnover (see p. 9 for their complete complacency there).

It's not a question of the "net profit achieved" from improved retail offerings etc. adding to our player budget either, as suggested by PR on p. 9 - we will need increased turnover regardless of whether it turns a profit, just to be entitled to a healthy Championship wage budget, so we need to bring things like retail and catering in-house to improve those turnover numbers regardless of profit, not leave everything outsourced as it is now, with all the associated turnover sitting in other companies' accounts, not the football club's.

And if we do all this and it makes a loss, well - that's where the owners need to step in and contribute, right? But at least we'd be maximising our chances on the playing side, by maximising our turnover.

p. 10: "PR stated that any changes made will make it easier rather than harder for PNE to compete in the future" - again, that point needs to be explored further in future, because the new Prem distribution seems more likely to bake in current disparities between the top 44 clubs, with us likely to be baked firmly into the bottom 6 of those.

pp. 11-12: The section on Ingol is predictably laughable and insulting - "CH stated that nobody was lied to about the plans for Ingol, the circumstances simply changed and an opportunity came up". That sort of bullshit simply isn't going to wash.

Creates a new meme though, emblematic of this ownership: "nobody was lied to, circumstances simply changed".

p. 12: "CH highlighted that the funds that would have gone on developing the training ground have already gone into the club over the years" - see, there was never any intention of building the bloody thing, over and above what we were already spending on club running costs. It was always hot air to get those houses built. And if any profit ever materialises from the house building, it won't be heading anywhere near the club because, as CH says here, we've "already" had it.

p. 12: LMAO at the club's apparent readiness to welch on the Fanzone project too - "it has been costed in a few different locations and forecasts show it doesn't make any money". No shit! Maybe these owners are no fucking good at making money on anything that isn't just real estate.

Maybe that's why they prefer car park spaces to fanzones.

Maybe they don't understand the concept of adding value beyond merely turning a profit. Making something better for the fans simply because better is preferable to shitty.

Curious to know what their new plans for the Invincibles eyesore are - maybe that's the new candidate for the Fanzone!
A pretty depressing read sadly. It appears to be everyone else’s fault apart from PR/CH/TH. Ryan Lowe has been made out to be the main scapegoat with a lot of blame being put at his door along with former managers. You’re telling me Lowe was happy with all the transfer business… I somehow don’t think so. There’s apparently no other RWB options other than the one who failed a medical..

It’s quite frankly embarrassing that clubs like Fleetwood/Accy Stanley can build a fanzone/club bar and we still have a poxy tent. The investment for that isn’t part of the clubs budget, that’s just the ownership not willing to put any extra money towards that. I’ve been to the bar at Stanley and it’s brilliant, 1000 times better than the tent we have.

It seems like it’s still “like it or lump it”. I don’t expect anything to change now or within the next couple of years. As other posters have said. It seems the club are hoping to just fluke the league one year and questions asked about further investment are a non starter..

Well done to all the fans involved in making this conversation happen but I feel we don’t know anything now we didn’t already know as it’s the usual reel of nonsense from the powers above.
Not sure I swallow the explanation given on the budget, surely there has to be financial flexibility from billionaire owners with Premier league ambitions. Sorry doesn't wash, the statement raises more questions than answers. As you were guys.