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CONFIRMED PNE Supporters Meeting Minutes - 16/11/22 (Response to open letter).

I sure do. :) Youth players who have started at least one league game. This list should have been handed to Hemmings and Riddler.

Absolute disgrace they can suggest our youth development strategy is working. The only one to start in last nine seasons, we paid off to leave.

2022/23
2021/22
2020/21
2019/20
2018/19
2017/18
2016/17
2015/16
2014/15
2013/14 Browne, Brownhill
2012/13 Davies
2011/12
2010/11
2009/10

Same list, but removed all the sub-championship quality players.

£1.2m a year, Brutal
 
Further, didn't we bring in Browne (and possibly brownhill) when they'd already largely been developed elsewhere? In effect the system has produced 1 player of championship quality in that time (3 if we are charitable and include Earl and Dolan).

At championship level a system like this isn't going to cut it, it's a high standard.
 
So basically, "There is no chance of us putting more money in, or finding outside investment, and in any case, due to FFP, neither of those could happen anyway".

But am I right in thinking that funds invested in youth development don't count towards FFP?
Yes you are correct, academy costs, capital expenditure on infrastructure and the related depreciation thereof are omitted from/ added back to net profit/ loss for FFP purposes. Many top clubs also classify elements of recruitment costs (e.g. the development of player databases and novel performance metrics) as Research & Development, which can also be added back to net profit/ loss for FFP purposes. A permanent fan zone and completion of the Invincibles would also not impact on FFP.

The FFP argument put forward by the club doesn’t wash, they have loads of options if they needed to work around the FFP restrictions (stadium naming rights, shirt sponsorship, infrastructure investment, acquisition of unsold tickets for each home game, exercise the option on Cork City and ‘shifting profits’ via transfer pricing mechanisms to some degree, to name just a few).

The lack of investment is a choice and to present it as anything other than that is a complete fabrication.
 
Surely that’s not £22m per annum? Looks more like the number that would be expected over three years, I know that another championship club is working in the basis of an extra £2m-£3m per annum in terms of EPL funding (which would amount to roughly £22m over three years in total given the current funding of circa £4.8m per annum).

If anyone believes that the club will suddenly be receiving £22m p.a from the EPL they are going to be very disappointed. Any increase will be irrelevant anyway if we are in League One.
May
In terms of the redisitrubtion of Premier League money.

Estimates are it would increase to about £22 million for a club like ours and then a team coming down from the Premier League would get about £30 million.

The fans told them we will be believe it when we see it.
May I ask who provided the £22m figure and whether any additional information or explanation was provided in this regard? I would be extremely concerned if this is what the club actually believe is going to happen (unless of course this is the figure over three years as I alluded to in a previous post).
 
Further, didn't we bring in Browne (and possibly brownhill) when they'd already largely been developed elsewhere? In effect the system has produced 1 player of championship quality in that time (3 if we are charitable and include Earl and Dolan).
Browne, Dolan, Brownhill and even Bailey Wright all joined at age 16.

Not exactly flourished through the academy and prospered.
 
As for the rest of the minutes, fair play to each and every one of you for giving up your time and energy to meet with the hierarchy.

Hot air and a "we know best" mentality throughout those minutes which in my opinion is what holds this business back.

Needs some fresh blood and ideas to the top table please because currently it's so stagnant and stuck in the ways of the past.

The business isn't going anywhere near the Premier League anytime soon.
 
2022/23
2021/22
2020/21
2019/20
2018/19
2017/18
2016/17
2015/16
2014/15
2013/14 Browne, Brownhill
2012/13 Davies
2011/12
2010/11
2009/10

Same list, but removed all the sub-championship quality players.

£1.2m a year, Brutal

It makes you wonder if it genuinely costs us £1.2m a year, why are we bothering? I guess it feels like you SHOULD have an academy from a community point of view, but the academy we have isn't good enough to keep the best players here and its clear that isn't going to change anytime soon.

That £1.2m could go on a signing once a year that fits into the young with massive potential to sell on category from league 1 etc. Isn't that the approach Brentford took?

They could put together a plan to do this in order to give the club a better chance of promotion to the Premier League, then when we eventually do achieve that, first job with the PL cash, build a proper state of the art academy on the land at Ingol, no corners cut, build it to rival the best in the North West and start from scratch academy wise.

Maybe I'm massively wrong but just spending £1.2m a year on something that hasn't produced an actual proper, valuable first time player for 10 years seems daft.
 
It makes you wonder if it genuinely costs us £1.2m a year, why are we bothering? I guess it feels like you SHOULD have an academy from a community point of view, but the academy we have isn't good enough to keep the best players here and its clear that isn't going to change anytime soon.

That £1.2m could go on a signing once a year that fits into the young with massive potential to sell on category from league 1 etc. Isn't that the approach Brentford took?

They could put together a plan to do this in order to give the club a better chance of promotion to the Premier League, then when we eventually do achieve that, first job with the PL cash, build a proper state of the art academy on the land at Ingol, no corners cut, build it to rival the best in the North West and start from scratch academy wise.

Maybe I'm massively wrong but just spending £1.2m a year on something that hasn't produced an actual proper, valuable first time player for 10 years seems daft.
Because it can be used as an excuse. If we sacked the academy off, the savings would still only allows us to bring in one bang average championship player and our squad would still be as unbalanced, but the club would have one less "expense" to hide behind.
 
I don't know if anyone else has mentioned it in this thread at some point but I do think our transfer policy resting entirely on the final judgement of the manager is a bit backwards.

If we take the minutes as being completely true, we are reliant on managers to pick which players we buy/offer contracts to even though football managers are only in the job for a short time. The likes of Neil and Lowe will only be thinking in the short term because that's what affects them. If we try to sign someone who might come good 2-4 years down the line, they probably won't be interested because they know they may not be in the job by that point. They don't want to waste the money which means we might miss out on players who we could sell on for big bucks down the line. Even if we do bring a manager in who has that foresight, they might get sacked because of poor performances and then we'll be left with another manager who wants success now.

You need someone who can see the business sense of a signing. This is why Directors of Football exist these days. They are there to make these types of judgements and to look after the longer term interests. Managers may not like it but this is the modern world.
 
It makes you wonder if it genuinely costs us £1.2m a year, why are we bothering? I guess it feels like you SHOULD have an academy from a community point of view, but the academy we have isn't good enough to keep the best players here and its clear that isn't going to change anytime soon.

That £1.2m could go on a signing once a year that fits into the young with massive potential to sell on category from league 1 etc. Isn't that the approach Brentford took?

They could put together a plan to do this in order to give the club a better chance of promotion to the Premier League, then when we eventually do achieve that, first job with the PL cash, build a proper state of the art academy on the land at Ingol, no corners cut, build it to rival the best in the North West and start from scratch academy wise.

Maybe I'm massively wrong but just spending £1.2m a year on something that hasn't produced an actual proper, valuable first time player for 10 years seems daft.
Yup. And turning a league 2 standard operation to something that can work at champ level will probably take 5 years minimum.

You either go all in or take your chances on picking up what other clubs don’t want.

Personally I’d go for the second option TBH as we need quicker wins but do it with more purpose than we have so far.

Using this approach has got us a few good players (Pearson, Brownhill good examples) but it seems to be on a needs must basis rather than a plan.

Truth is we have no player development plan. Or indeed any sort of plan.

The letter was a good after by all involved and they deserve our appreciation but sadly the meeting has uncovered nothing we didn’t already know of suspect.

Get ready for League 1 in 2024 folks.
 
Well, it seems to me that the members who went to this meeting would have needed a well earned drink following the drivel which came from the hosts mouths. I cannot believe that they would hold this meeting without Ryan Lowe, in attendance, but the attendee's were for the hosts to make and he wasn't wanted there, for Ridsdale and Hemmings would just want people there from PNE if they were sure were singing from the same hymn book. It's a very interesting thread and I thank people for such entertainment, although it's almost very "samey", not many saying much about the previous system when Hemmings senior was alive, yet people still think he was a saviour.
The minutes of this meeting suggest that Ridsdale was the main contributor, an old phrase of " you can tell Peter Ridsdale anywhere but you can't tell Peter Ridsdale anything " He wanted to run the show and this was certainly well choreographed, they both knew where they were going with all the hidden lies. As for the issues regarding the players for whom Lowe and Neil had responsibility, just perhaps Lowe will not be able to make comments because of his contract and Neil might not wish to comment I suspect. The whole episode was a time-wasting effort for all parties, and most posters on here have alluded to that.
So do we take this on the chin? or do we carry on with our expectations of promotion or better players? or just wait for a new owner to come along with a better system and management team?
Seems to me that we should pull together a new group of strong supporters who will perhaps meet regularly or zoom (!) and use this meeting that has taken place and continually press for further answers . I for one am saddened for the regular supporters who pay over their hard earned wages to be hood winked in such a manner, but I have known this to be the case at North End for over 60 years. Sorry to have to say this but I have kept saying about the weak approach re using Ridsdale who IMO ruined a number of clubs during his tenure.
 
It makes you wonder if it genuinely costs us £1.2m a year, why are we bothering? I guess it feels like you SHOULD have an academy from a community point of view, but the academy we have isn't good enough to keep the best players here and its clear that isn't going to change anytime soon.

That £1.2m could go on a signing once a year that fits into the young with massive potential to sell on category from league 1 etc. Isn't that the approach Brentford took?

They could put together a plan to do this in order to give the club a better chance of promotion to the Premier League, then when we eventually do achieve that, first job with the PL cash, build a proper state of the art academy on the land at Ingol, no corners cut, build it to rival the best in the North West and start from scratch academy wise.

Maybe I'm massively wrong but just spending £1.2m a year on something that hasn't produced an actual proper, valuable first time player for 10 years seems daft.
A small detail in the scheme of things but I don’t think the academy actually costs £1.2m per annum. I am pretty sure that we get a £700k grant re: the academy so the net cost is £500k. I’ve come across this with other clubs which have cat 3 academies and a pretty certain that this I also the case at North End. While it probably does cost £1.2m gross to operate, the net cost is only £500k. Abolishing the academy would ‘save’ £1.2m but would also mean losing the grant money. Peter just seems unable to tell the truth on anything.
 
A small detail in the scheme of things but I don’t think the academy actually costs £1.2m per annum. I am pretty sure that we get a £700k grant re: the academy so the net cost is £500k. I’ve come across this with other clubs which have cat 3 academies and a pretty certain that this I also the case at North End. While it probably does cost £1.2m gross to operate, the net cost is only £500k. Abolishing the academy would ‘save’ £1.2m but would also mean losing the grant money. Peter just seems unable to tell the truth on anything.
WOW I’m shocked Peter not talking the truth , I think I need to go and have a lie down wake me up when Father Christmas has been , that I do believe.😰🎅
 
A point I think is missed is the conflict between the clubs strategy of having to get some money in for a player to balance the books and the clearly stated strategy of the manager of having short contracts - short contracts don’t lead to big transfer fees as the player waits it out to get a signing fee and if the contract is only a year or two the value of the player is significantly reduced.
 
Every credit to all those behind the letter and those who attended the meeting. Through absolutely no fault of their's, it appears to have achieved nothing.
I honestly can't see the point of having another meeting whilst the current owners are in place.
 
Every credit to all those behind the letter and those who attended the meeting. Through absolutely no fault of their's, it appears to have achieved nothing.
I honestly can't see the point of having another meeting whilst the current owners are in place.
The owners or trustees of OUR football club along with PR are more and more alienating themselves from the supporters of our great and famous club.🙄😡😡
 
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