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PNEFC - Can you ever imagine fan ownership?

Cruyff

0
Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
1,148
I see there are many pats on the back today for the club and Peter Ridsdale for his statement condemning the European Super League.

"Fantastic statement"
"My club could never do that"
"Proper club with proper values"

But do you actually believe that? Do you really think we are any different to any of these clubs now being lambasted by sky sports and the premier league? Is our billionaire owner who lives in a tax haven in it for the good of the people of Preston?

Todays statement by PNE talks about "power grabs" and how "performance on the field of play" should be paramount. Do you remember Project Big Picture from last year? The "rescue plan" by the Premier League elite who would dangle a golden carrot over the EFL in exchange for a smaller Premier League, abolishing the League Cup and more importantly special voting rights for the "Big Six". Well do you remember how PNE voted on that power grab? Take a look, because the clip is right here:

https://www.skysports.com/watch/vid...12102673/preston-supports-project-big-picture

It's all there. We don't like it, but if they are going to pay us 3x the going rate, sign us up. No regard for the fans feeling on that one funnily enough. So why is it different this time? Well guess what happens if the big six walk away from the Premier League, the FA Cup, Sky Sports TV packages? English football suddenly becomes a hell of a lot less attractive on any commercial deal you can name, and the slice of pie coming the way of Preston North End is drastically reduced. So you better believe today we are the spokesperson for fan rights, history, competitive fair play...

Let us not forget, Trevor Hemmings put the club into administration and threatened to let HMRC wind us up if supporters didn't hand over their shares at 5p a go. This is the club that had fans petition the council for a training ground in Ingol, which is now going to be a housing development. This is the club that plasters a betting company across the front of its shirt because the highest bidder wins. And are we unique to that? Of course not. We are just more of the same, another branch on the rotting tree.

The footballing world in this country sat back and watched the Glazers saunter into Manchester United, saddle the club with hundreds of millions of debt and interest, and did nothing to stop it. We all watched Peter Winkleman buy a football club and move it overnight from Wimbledon to Milton Keynes. Bolton Wanderers escaped from the football league into the Premier League and immediately set about campaigning for a Premier League 2 to help pull the ladder up behind them. Remember Chester? Bury? I could go on.

So what's my point? Well for starters can we all stop patting ourselves smugly on the back that our club is different, we are a proper club, proper fans, it would never happen here. If someone offered Trevor Hemmings £100m to move the club to Ireland we would be sold tomorrow so don't kid yourself. We have zero say and zero influence. That's just the reality of the footballing world we have created in this country.

There is a reason why no German club has (yet) signed up to this Super League model, and it's because of two reasons. The 50+1 model means no rich investor owners can ever call the shots over their fanbase. If you want a full in depth look at this I would suggest google or start with this article on Copa90. And the second reason is their fans are organised, not just on a club level but nationwide. They won't accept extortionate ticket prices or Monday night games. They aren't consumers and won't be treated as such.

So I ask you - could you ever see a day when Preston North End is owned by its fanbase? Would you want that or are happy for it to be passed around rich local, national, or international businessmen over the coming decades if it means "success" on the pitch? Would you walk away and say enough is enough? More and more supporters seem to be gravitating towards lower league or non league football, there are alternatives out there.

This could be a seminal moment in English and European football, but don't base your opinion on what should happen next on the words of UEFA (they've just dropped a 36 team Champions League this morning to increase games by over 100 in a year and "new spots for elite clubs who fail to qualify" btw), the Premier League and Sky Sports who don't want their golden goose walking out the door. Fans need to organise and take genuine steps towards fan ownership if we ever want to see "our game" come back to us.
 
When I was involved in supporters groups we tried to push interest for a Supporters Trust to buy shares in the football club.

There sadly wasn't enough interest on the couple of times we looked into it.

Partly because the club and "majority" shareholders at the time viewed that they already had fans on the board and didn't need fans representation.

We also had the issue that a large number of fans already had shares in the plc and not many seemed willing to pool them together.

Germany has proven to have it spot on with the 51/49% share holding which has no doubt kept Bayern and Dortmund being involved in the new greed league.

Whether anything like that is sustainable in England who knows but if this latest shambles doesn't give everyone a kick up the arse nothing will.

That said and whilst I have issues with the running of the club I do give credit to Peter for the statement they have made today.

As a founder member and first ever league winner it was important we set a tone and I believe he has done so.
 
The trouble with the German 51% rule is, after 20 years of investment, a commercial investor can apply to be exempted from the rule - which seems a pretty glaring loophole, especially as the 20 years is up for many Bundesliga clubs/investors, and there are already a few exemptions.

Link: German soccer rules: 50+1 explained | Bundesliga
 
I personally hope sky pull the plug and we return to a reasonable pay structure, remember the Prem left the EFL and the parachute payments ensure few can achieve. Everyone looks after their own interest.
As the post reads We our beloved North End are not better than the rest. Check out Ridsdales CV, follow the money.
The games corrupt to the core
 
I personally hope sky pull the plug and we return to a reasonable pay structure, remember the Prem left the EFL and the parachute payments ensure few can achieve. Everyone looks after their own interest.
As the post reads We our beloved North End are not better than the rest. Check out Ridsdales CV, follow the money.
The games corrupt to the core
(y) (y)
 
how can we have fan ownership when we cant even agree on a strip design or away strip colour?

and who would we blame if we played 4 2 3 1 with Maguire up top?
 
I personally hope sky pull the plug and we return to a reasonable pay structure, remember the Prem left the EFL and the parachute payments ensure few can achieve. Everyone looks after their own interest.
As the post reads We our beloved North End are not better than the rest. Check out Ridsdales CV, follow the money.
The games corrupt to the core
Yes and sky will no doubt be the one's buying the rights, riddlers snout would be 1st in the trough given the chance.
 
I see there are many pats on the back today for the club and Peter Ridsdale for his statement condemning the European Super League.

"Fantastic statement"
"My club could never do that"
"Proper club with proper values"

But do you actually believe that? Do you really think we are any different to any of these clubs now being lambasted by sky sports and the premier league? Is our billionaire owner who lives in a tax haven in it for the good of the people of Preston?

Todays statement by PNE talks about "power grabs" and how "performance on the field of play" should be paramount. Do you remember Project Big Picture from last year? The "rescue plan" by the Premier League elite who would dangle a golden carrot over the EFL in exchange for a smaller Premier League, abolishing the League Cup and more importantly special voting rights for the "Big Six". Well do you remember how PNE voted on that power grab? Take a look, because the clip is right here:

https://www.skysports.com/watch/vid...12102673/preston-supports-project-big-picture

It's all there. We don't like it, but if they are going to pay us 3x the going rate, sign us up. No regard for the fans feeling on that one funnily enough. So why is it different this time? Well guess what happens if the big six walk away from the Premier League, the FA Cup, Sky Sports TV packages? English football suddenly becomes a hell of a lot less attractive on any commercial deal you can name, and the slice of pie coming the way of Preston North End is drastically reduced. So you better believe today we are the spokesperson for fan rights, history, competitive fair play...

Let us not forget, Trevor Hemmings put the club into administration and threatened to let HMRC wind us up if supporters didn't hand over their shares at 5p a go. This is the club that had fans petition the council for a training ground in Ingol, which is now going to be a housing development. This is the club that plasters a betting company across the front of its shirt because the highest bidder wins. And are we unique to that? Of course not. We are just more of the same, another branch on the rotting tree.

The footballing world in this country sat back and watched the Glazers saunter into Manchester United, saddle the club with hundreds of millions of debt and interest, and did nothing to stop it. We all watched Peter Winkleman buy a football club and move it overnight from Wimbledon to Milton Keynes. Bolton Wanderers escaped from the football league into the Premier League and immediately set about campaigning for a Premier League 2 to help pull the ladder up behind them. Remember Chester? Bury? I could go on.

So what's my point? Well for starters can we all stop patting ourselves smugly on the back that our club is different, we are a proper club, proper fans, it would never happen here. If someone offered Trevor Hemmings £100m to move the club to Ireland we would be sold tomorrow so don't kid yourself. We have zero say and zero influence. That's just the reality of the footballing world we have created in this country.

There is a reason why no German club has (yet) signed up to this Super League model, and it's because of two reasons. The 50+1 model means no rich investor owners can ever call the shots over their fanbase. If you want a full in depth look at this I would suggest google or start with this article on Copa90. And the second reason is their fans are organised, not just on a club level but nationwide. They won't accept extortionate ticket prices or Monday night games. They aren't consumers and won't be treated as such.

So I ask you - could you ever see a day when Preston North End is owned by its fanbase? Would you want that or are happy for it to be passed around rich local, national, or international businessmen over the coming decades if it means "success" on the pitch? Would you walk away and say enough is enough? More and more supporters seem to be gravitating towards lower league or non league football, there are alternatives out there.

This could be a seminal moment in English and European football, but don't base your opinion on what should happen next on the words of UEFA (they've just dropped a 36 team Champions League this morning to increase games by over 100 in a year and "new spots for elite clubs who fail to qualify" btw), the Premier League and Sky Sports who don't want their golden goose walking out the door. Fans need to organise and take genuine steps towards fan ownership if we ever want to see "our game" come back to us.
Great post.
 
Yes and sky will no doubt be the one's buying the rights, riddlers snout would be 1st in the trough given the chance.
It was notable that in all the hours of ‘breaking news’ delivered by the cast of smarmy pseudo journalists on SSN, the stated position of SKY was conspicuous by it’s absence.

This ‘ESL’ master plan wasn’t devised overnight. Could there have been any way they weren’t up to their greedy necks in the plotting?
 
It was notable that in all the hours of ‘breaking news’ delivered by the cast of smarmy pseudo journalists on SSN, the stated position of SKY was conspicuous by it’s absence.

This ‘ESL’ master plan wasn’t devised overnight. Could there have been any way they weren’t up to their greedy necks in the plotting?

Sky put a statement out on Monday night stating they had no involvement in it to be fair.

Whilst Peter's statement was correct and the right thing to do, I very much doubt that Mr. Hemmings would entertain the the thought of fans having a shareholding and insight into his business.
 
It's not as easy as creating a "German 50+1 law" via some "legislative bomb" though.

That rule came in in Germany when clubs were already 100% owned by fans groups - it was a way of opening up 49% of club ownership to external commercial investors for the first time, with the fans groups retaining 51% and overall control.

But here in England, we mostly have clubs 100% owned by commercial investors, and close to 0% owned by fans groups.

Club owners are not going to hand over 50+1% of their shareholdings and voting rights to fans groups for nothing - nor are they likely to keep paying all the bills while the fans simply get to veto all their executive decisions.

We have to hope Tracey Crouch's football governance review comes up with some workable proposals, but anything that fundamentally and directly changes club ownership rules is surely going to have the problem of "who pays?"
 
If the government implemented a windfall tax for the premiership clubs that could fund it as one example, we need to view this opportunity positively and push for change. It can be done if we unite and force change. The government will be keen to tap into the millions of voters who love there clubs. No brainer, let's take this opportunity.
 
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