Political Correctness

Mer5eywhite

First Team
I'm not clear as to whether this was a school policy, an instruction from the RE teacher you were covering for or something from elsewhere.
OK. I spoke with three RE teachers, one of whom has taught in a school with a significant number of muslim pupils. We have some but as a proportion of the entire cohort, relatively few.
They informed me that the written guidance is for sensitivity, however if a lesson was being observed and images of the prophet or Allah were used as a resource or drawn/downloaded by a pupil then the lesson would almost certainly fail observation.
In our school we operate guidance which states that it is not necessary to depict either the prophet or Allah in order to master the syllabus content and therefore issuing explicit instructions not to draw them is appropriate because it further enables the pupils to later recall this aspect of Islam.
I have to admit that I hadn't thought this through before. There are some great Islamic schools in the UK and there are those where Ofsted has had to close them with immediate effect. I have had the fortune of working with some great educational professionals who also happened to be muslim. I think the DfE are aware of the issues found in a minority of these schools and have begun to deal with them effectively.
 

Liberation

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OK. I spoke with three RE teachers, one of whom has taught in a school with a significant number of muslim pupils. We have some but as a proportion of the entire cohort, relatively few.
They informed me that the written guidance is for sensitivity, however if a lesson was being observed and images of the prophet or Allah were used as a resource or drawn/downloaded by a pupil then the lesson would almost certainly fail observation.
In our school we operate guidance which states that it is not necessary to depict either the prophet or Allah in order to master the syllabus content and therefore issuing explicit instructions not to draw them is appropriate because it further enables the pupils to later recall this aspect of Islam.
I have to admit that I hadn't thought this through before. There are some great Islamic schools in the UK and there are those where Ofsted has had to close them with immediate effect. I have had the fortune of working with some great educational professionals who also happened to be muslim. I think the DfE are aware of the issues found in a minority of these schools and have begun to deal with them effectively.


You are actually teaching in the year 2019 aren't you?....................... Why do I get the feeling that we are regressing?

Speculate to accumulate I suppose.......... ( there's no smiley for exasperated or I'd have used it ).
 

PNEESSEX

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OK. I spoke with three RE teachers, one of whom has taught in a school with a significant number of muslim pupils. We have some but as a proportion of the entire cohort, relatively few.
They informed me that the written guidance is for sensitivity, however if a lesson was being observed and images of the prophet or Allah were used as a resource or drawn/downloaded by a pupil then the lesson would almost certainly fail observation.
In our school we operate guidance which states that it is not necessary to depict either the prophet or Allah in order to master the syllabus content and therefore issuing explicit instructions not to draw them is appropriate because it further enables the pupils to later recall this aspect of Islam.
I have to admit that I hadn't thought this through before. There are some great Islamic schools in the UK and there are those where Ofsted has had to close them with immediate effect. I have had the fortune of working with some great educational professionals who also happened to be muslim. I think the DfE are aware of the issues found in a minority of these schools and have begun to deal with them effectively.
It's a minefield for sure. I can understand both sides of the argument. I come from a family of teachers (Uncles, aunts, cousins, brother, sister in law, niece, was married to a lecturer too) and I know that there is a very fine line to be trodden here (and in other "sensitive" areas where the curriculum covers issues where individuals hold very divergent views). Over the last several decades, all sorts of things have been at the forefront of problems with regard to how classroom practitioners should, or shouldn't, tackle controversial matters. I remember the furore over Section 28 back in the late 80s for example.

I'm also aware that faith schools of all stripes, have been falling foul of OfSTED; there was a case about an orthodox Jewish school in N London which got in trouble for redacting parts of texts and was found inadequate at inspection because, amongst other things, it failed to prepare children for life in Britain. It was the same thing that caused a number of Islamic schools in Birmingham to be found inadequate too. I dont envy you one little bit!!!
 

Waltz

First Team
It's a minefield for sure. I can understand both sides of the argument. I come from a family of teachers (Uncles, aunts, cousins, brother, sister in law, niece, was married to a lecturer too) and I know that there is a very fine line to be trodden here (and in other "sensitive" areas where the curriculum covers issues where individuals hold very divergent views). Over the last several decades, all sorts of things have been at the forefront of problems with regard to how classroom practitioners should, or shouldn't, tackle controversial matters. I remember the furore over Section 28 back in the late 80s for example.

I'm also aware that faith schools of all stripes, have been falling foul of OfSTED; there was a case about an orthodox Jewish school in N London which got in trouble for redacting parts of texts and was found inadequate at inspection because, amongst other things, it failed to prepare children for life in Britain. It was the same thing that caused a number of Islamic schools in Birmingham to be found inadequate too. I dont envy you one little bit!!!
A starting point maybe to end the "Charitable status" of faiths and their schools, it may be better to educate all children together rather than apart. Then, work towards taking "faith" out of schools entirely, apart from general knowledge.
I would not mind but, Jews, Christians and Muslims all basically believe the same shit, from the talking snake to John the Baptist including some bloke making the world in 6 days and Noah's ark.
I understand in the US 40 percent of people do not believe in evolution and 20 percent are "not sure". FFS!
 

Liberation

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A starting point maybe to end the "Charitable status" of faiths and their schools, it may be better to educate all children together rather than apart. Then, work towards taking "faith" out of schools entirely, apart from general knowledge.
I would not mind but, Jews, Christians and Muslims all basically believe the same shit, from the talking snake to John the Baptist including some bloke making the world in 6 days and Noah's ark.
I understand in the US 40 percent of people do not believe in evolution and 20 percent are "not sure". FFS!

I doubt this will ever happen again Mitty so make the most of it......................... I Agree With You. :)


But may I add that if you do want to follow a " faith " then do it in your own time and preferably do it when you are over 18.......Noah was a good bloke btw.
 

Mer5eywhite

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As a Catholic who attends mass (but if you delve into my faith, you’d probably be surprised) I think your comments make some sense.
That said, I’ve seen completely secular education in France and it certainly hasn’t solved their problems. It is also true that the church has enabled a higher quality of education for less money - Catholic schools and CE school building projects and maintenance part funded by the dioceses etc.
I think we stick with what we have and ensure they stop teaching backwards crap!
For what it’s worth, Orthodox Jews also get rather upset when you try and draw God.
 

Liberation

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As a Catholic who attends mass (but if you delve into my faith, you’d probably be surprised) I think your comments make some sense.
That said, I’ve seen completely secular education in France and it certainly hasn’t solved their problems. It is also true that the church has enabled a higher quality of education for less money - Catholic schools and CE school building projects and maintenance part funded by the dioceses etc.
I think we stick with what we have and ensure they stop teaching backwards crap!
For what it’s worth, Orthodox Jews also get rather upset when you try and draw God.


How about making religion illegal ( lets say ) below the age of 16?...Same as gambling and drinking?...........I'm all for teaching the truth and more than happy for children to learn about all religious persuassions..... But I'm not happy with brainwashing and that's what faith schools try to do, there's no escaping it.
 

northender0602

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As a Catholic who attends mass (but if you delve into my faith, you’d probably be surprised) I think your comments make some sense.
That said, I’ve seen completely secular education in France and it certainly hasn’t solved their problems. It is also true that the church has enabled a higher quality of education for less money - Catholic schools and CE school building projects and maintenance part funded by the dioceses etc.
I think we stick with what we have and ensure they stop teaching backwards crap!
For what it’s worth, Orthodox Jews also get rather upset when you try and draw God.
Maybe it’s something to do with graven/false images.
 

Liberation

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northender 0602 nailed it really

the 2nd commandment

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image"

Bollocks............... No one knows what they look like anyway ( they can't because they aren't real ) ....We'd have to lose a lot of crosses aswell..... Much better to allow folk to draw/paint or/and let their imaginations run free I reckon. :)
 

northender0602

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Bollocks............... No one knows what they look like anyway ( they can't because they aren't real ) ....We'd have to lose a lot of crosses aswell..... Much better to allow folk to draw/paint or/and let their imaginations run free I reckon. :)
I do agree with you, but maybe that’s where it comes from, to draw is a false image as no one knows what they look like, so it should not be created because it isn’t true? Personally I think it’s ott that mindset, but it’s there in an ingrained order that goes back centuries and is not dismissed that easily in some quarters.
 

Sepp Blatter

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northender 0602 nailed it really

the 2nd commandment

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image"
My mate's parents are fundamental Christians - when he visited Greece a while back, I suggested that he should bring them over to visit the many churches. He said they won't go into an orthodox church because they consider them to be idol worshippers.
 

northender0602

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If my memory serves me right is it something to do with Moses leading the Israelites out of Egypt? They worshipped a cow/calf as their god, but that’s were the commandment comes in?
 
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