Racism in Bulgaria

pneal

Manager
Firstly Nobber I am not Derek. Why you continue with that ridiculous line is beyond me.

And just chill a bit fellas. I was merely posing a question, but as always you have to become abusive.

Part of racism is showing how a race is superior or inferior to others, which it could be viewed that competitions like football encourage that view.......in fact a chant used at PNE not long ago was “we are superior”.

I’m not condoning racism in any way, I’m questioning whether sporting competitions like this, and in particular the fans that support their country , are in fact themselves showing an element of racism.

In the Bulgarian game the other night it was obviously about the colour of the skin, and was quite blatant, but racism surely covers many areas in terms of nationality,ethnicity, religion etc

When England play Scotland there are some pretty vitriolic and barbed comments thrown around. Not to mention comments by our own fans about the tangerine (colour reference) down the road.

Just wondering where competitive banter ends and racist banter starts.

I agree that it is more nuanced than many of us would like to think. Passion for your club/nation, combined with historic rivalry can create a "them and us" scenario. While for the most part this is good-natured banter rather than real hatred, there does come a point where it crosses a line and becomes problematic. Where precisely that line is will differ depending on each individual. To use England vs. Germany as an examples I find chants like "Two world wars and one world cup", "Ten German bombers" inoffensive, if slightly childish banter; whereas I'd argue "my grandad killed your grandad" probably crosses the line. Others will have different opinions.

Racism is slightly different because it often operates independently of club or national allegiance. This isn't always the case though, particularly for national teams where race and nationality are often intrinsically linked. Even between two predominantly white nations there are often racial or ethnic differences.

It might be further complicating an already complex issue but I think Europne has a valid point. No one is saying that cheering for your club and singing "you can shove your tower up your arse" is the same as making monkey noises at black players. And no is saying that competitive banter is a bad thing. But perhaps there is a continuum with friendly banter at one end and frothing hatred at the other.
 

truenorthender

Advisor to the Owner
I agree that it is more nuanced than many of us would like to think. Passion for your club/nation, combined with historic rivalry can create a "them and us" scenario. While for the most part this is good-natured banter rather than real hatred, there does come a point where it crosses a line and becomes problematic. Where precisely that line is will differ depending on each individual. To use England vs. Germany as an examples I find chants like "Two world wars and one world cup", "Ten German bombers" inoffensive, if slightly childish banter; whereas I'd argue "my grandad killed your grandad" probably crosses the line. Others will have different opinions.

Racism is slightly different because it often operates independently of club or national allegiance. This isn't always the case though, particularly for national teams where race and nationality are often intrinsically linked. Even between two predominantly white nations there are often racial or ethnic differences.

It might be further complicating an already complex issue but I think Europne has a valid point. No one is saying that cheering for your club and singing "you can shove your tower up your arse" is the same as making monkey noises at black players. And no is saying that competitive banter is a bad thing. But perhaps there is a continuum with friendly banter at one end and frothing hatred at the other.
Come off it pal... The line is shouting racist shite at players. It's as simple as that ... It's obviously has nothing to do with banter.
 
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