Should the PNE players take the knee ??

Doyler

Manager
Nobody booed Kick It Out.
Exactly. So there goes the notion that these people are booing because they're against anti-racism campaigns.

Taking the knee before a game is absolutely useless and just a waste of five seconds or so. But that's all it is, five seconds. If they want to do it and actually see a point in it, fine. But IMO the only reason they're still doing it now is because people are booing and they don't want to buckle to the pressure.
 

PNE Chris

Manager
Well it could well be said that it is in fact racist by using the term Black.

Any group promoting White lives wouldn’t be deemed acceptable.

So to take the colour reference out may be a step in a better direction........

Also I find the whole thing has become a sort of trial, it’s not about personal choice in a group on a football pitch, you either have the whole team doing it, or the whole team not doing it, that’s not free choice, but can you imagine the reaction when 7 players take the knee and 4 don’t? That would create criticism.

I have no problem with equality and the principals but I feel using football is now counter producti.

I wouldn’t boo, but I might turn my back, I don’t want it to continue because it is being forced onto players and officials, it’s DEFINITELY not about individual choice.
Hasn't that already happened? I'm going to struggle to name who but I'm sure a player has stood whilst the rest of the team kneeled.
 

jamesOB

Forum Patron
Patron
Well it could well be said that it is in fact racist by using the term Black.

Any group promoting White lives wouldn’t be deemed acceptable.

So to take the colour reference out may be a step in a better direction........

Also I find the whole thing has become a sort of trial, it’s not about personal choice in a group on a football pitch, you either have the whole team doing it, or the whole team not doing it, that’s not free choice, but can you imagine the reaction when 7 players take the knee and 4 don’t? That would create criticism.

I have no problem with equality and the principals but I feel using football is now counter producti.

I wouldn’t boo, but I might turn my back, I don’t want it to continue because it is being forced onto players and officials, it’s DEFINITELY not about individual choice.
You mean like how Zaha remains standing whilst the rest of the palace team kneel? And I haven’t seen a word of criticism directed at him
 

europne

Advisor to the Owner
You mean like how Zaha remains standing whilst the rest of the palace team kneel? And I haven’t seen a word of criticism directed at him

That’s one, any more, and maybe the fact he is a black player may deflect any criticism.

Haven’t seen any evidence where several players and a couple of officials have remained standing.

It’s orchestrated, I’m sure a lot of people are doing it because they don’t want to be seen not doing it......

It’s now a false symbolism.

Maybe that’s what people are booing?
 

JJ_PNE

Advisor to the Owner
The minute its stopped talking about (taking the knee that is) and people stop booing it will stop of its own accord i reckon.
 

Bobbage

4th Choice Keeper
Patron
Probably because the campaign failed miserably at kicking racism out of football so they didn’t feel challenged. Not sure why people are wondering why a new campaign arrived on the scene

Purely playing Devil's avocado... Is online racial abuse better or worse since players started taking the knee before games?
 

europne

Advisor to the Owner
Purely playing Devil's avocado... Is online racial abuse better or worse since players started taking the knee before games?

I’ve actually wondered whether the racist abuse happens after the team has lost or the player has had a particularly bad game......... and do non black players also get abuse in similar circumstances but without racial overtones.

Platforms are places where people have a good grump, players get slated for performances on this site, angry fans can easily go over the top, not sure how much of this abuse is really nasty stuff or just angry fans losing the plot a little as they do, and if foreign players get nationality abuse in a similar way.

Maybe criticism itself should be banned then we don’t upset anyone’s feelings.....
 

jakehake

Preachs PA
Staff member
Patron
Purely playing Devil's avocado... Is online racial abuse better or worse since players started taking the knee before games?
It’s a good question. Maybe it’s distracted those who would have done. Maybe it’s fuelled those who wouldn’t. I’ll be honest here is probably the main place I’ve seen it discussed given it’s a “football” thing. It’s safe to say it’s triggered a debate that wasn’t really there before, we didn’t have threads about the “Kick racism” campaign running across multiple threads or for weeks on end so I guess that’s a reasonable barometer
 

Sepp Blatter

Liz Truss Groupie
Patron
It’s a good question. Maybe it’s distracted those who would have done. Maybe it’s fuelled those who wouldn’t. I’ll be honest here is probably the main place I’ve seen it discussed given it’s a “football” thing. It’s safe to say it’s triggered a debate that wasn’t really there before, we didn’t have threads about the “Kick racism” campaign running across multiple threads or for weeks on end so I guess that’s a reasonable barometer
Only one opinion of course, but the fact that we are now talking about the knee rather than the reasons behind it are a sign that it has gone on too long (although I have no truck with booing).

You are right, though - it has sparked debate about race within football, and that must be a good thing.
 

jakehake

Preachs PA
Staff member
Patron
Only one opinion of course, but the fact that we are now talking about the knee rather than the reasons behind it are a sign that it has gone on too long (although I have no truck with booing).

You are right, though - it has sparked debate about race within football, and that must be a good thing.
It’s become a distraction certainly.

Back to bobbages point, has online/real life racism decreased because of it? Not at all seemingly. Which leads to the circular argument again, we are where we are because of these behaviours. The conflation with blm/BLM, statues and whatever and people trying to portray it as “everyone” is for/against as one group and you get nowhere. We’ve a living, breathing example of it all here it seems.

Kick racism doesn’t/didnt work. Taking a knee hasn’t worked. Being quiet to shut up the debate won’t work. The issue is still there. Footballers amongst many, many others get abused for doing their job because of their race. Saying it isn’t really an issue, is still the issue. I’m at a loss what the solution is mind. People don’t change easily, if at all. Especially in short time frames. It’s a generation thing rather than solving it week by week
 

PNE Chris

Manager
I’ve actually wondered whether the racist abuse happens after the team has lost or the player has had a particularly bad game......... and do non black players also get abuse in similar circumstances but without racial overtones.

Platforms are places where people have a good grump, players get slated for performances on this site, angry fans can easily go over the top, not sure how much of this abuse is really nasty stuff or just angry fans losing the plot a little as they do, and if foreign players get nationality abuse in a similar way.

Maybe criticism itself should be banned then we don’t upset anyone’s feelings.....
What exactly are you saying here? Maybe I'm just reading it wrong but fucking hell it doesn't look good.
 

Sepp Blatter

Liz Truss Groupie
Patron
A
It’s become a distraction certainly.

Back to bobbages point, has online/real life racism decreased because of it? Not at all seemingly. Which leads to the circular argument again, we are where we are because of these behaviours. The conflation with blm/BLM, statues and whatever and people trying to portray it as “everyone” is for/against as one group and you get nowhere. We’ve a living, breathing example of it all here it seems.

Kick racism doesn’t/didnt work. Taking a knee hasn’t worked. Being quiet to shut up the debate won’t work. The issue is still there. Footballers amongst many, many others get abused for doing their job because of their race. Saying it isn’t really an issue, is still the issue. I’m at a loss what the solution is mind. People don’t change easily, if at all. Especially in short time frames. It’s a generation thing rather than solving it week by week
Absolutely agree - I think that the fact that we are discussing it pretty reasonably, with a divergence of views rather than them/us, is a step towards your last point, the fact that these things take a long time.

Football forums can be a microcosm of opinion away from the media bubble. And, don't forget that the Brits are an extremely tolerant bunch - there is always work to be done, of course, as the online abuse shows, but we are starting from a pretty good foundation.
 

jakehake

Preachs PA
Staff member
Patron
A

Absolutely agree - I think that the fact that we are discussing it pretty reasonably, with a divergence of views rather than them/us, is a step towards your last point, the fact that these things take a long time.

Football forums can be a microcosm of opinion away from the media bubble. And, don't forget that the Brits are an extremely tolerant bunch - there is always work to be done, of course, as the online abuse shows, but we are starting from a pretty good foundation.
It’s probably not a good place to discuss it as football fans see stuff differently on the basis of expectation/experience. Yet if you weren’t a football fan you’d maybe go with either thinking it’s good/bad without really knowing why.

From an outsider perspective we must look bonkers that we celebrate Tom Clarke scoring a goal against someone for years and people will sing chants that aren’t complimentary about other teams for any number of reasons, yet the same herd mentality will split down the middle on a subject like this. If as an example DJ was abused at an away game by opposition fans I’d expect almost without question our away support would go nuts in unified support for him. If he takes a knee at a home game he wouldn’t have unified support for his stance.

for a diverse nation we’re certainly conflicted which is to be expected
 

Sepp Blatter

Liz Truss Groupie
Patron
It’s probably not a good place to discuss it as football fans see stuff differently on the basis of expectation/experience. Yet if you weren’t a football fan you’d maybe go with either thinking it’s good/bad without really knowing why.

From an outsider perspective we must look bonkers that we celebrate Tom Clarke scoring a goal against someone for years and people will sing chants that aren’t complimentary about other teams for any number of reasons, yet the same herd mentality will split down the middle on a subject like this. If as an example DJ was abused at an away game by opposition fans I’d expect almost without question our away support would go nuts in unified support for him. If he takes a knee at a home game he wouldn’t have unified support for his stance.

for a diverse nation we’re certainly conflicted which is to be expected
That's human nature, though - we are not always rational or consistent, and even less so in a crowd. Conflicted beliefs are always going to happen, and discussion is the way to resolve that.

There are similar debates going on here around football and taking the knee - football fans are just as conflicted and inconsistent despite Greek football clubs being much more political. Maybe the traditional left-right divisions are breaking down.

One of the reasons why I like such debates on here - resembles the real world far better than the cultivated environment of social media. IMO, of course.
 

Sepp Blatter

Liz Truss Groupie
Patron
Off topic, but whatever happened to the owner that stormed the pitch with a pistol tucked in his trousers? I can't remember, was he the owner of AEK or PAOK? I never read up on what happened afterwards.
PAOK were docked three points, which halted their title challenge in its tracks - Savvidis was banned for three years.

It was a legally held firearm but, even so, what a dickhead.
 
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