So we’ve left.....

PNEESSEX

Forum Patron
Patron
I'm only offering an opinion based on a few smart cookies that have spent their lives working on the West Coast mainline.... Probably all " tosh " though. :).....PS...The last time i read an update they hadn't even aquired all the land required and that was billions into the project.
Your experts are better than mine? ;)

As I said, I was very sceptical about the whole thing and had it explained to me, in great detail, by someone I like and respect whose job it is to know about all this stuff. It takes a lot to make me change my views on anything......
 

NorthWestern

Forum Patron
Patron
I'm only offering an opinion based on a few smart cookies that have spent their lives working on the West Coast mainline.... Probably all " tosh " though. :).....PS...The last time i read an update they hadn't even aquired all the land required and that was billions into the project.
That would be Network Rail then
 

NorthWestern

Forum Patron
Patron
Your experts are better than mine? ;)

As I said, I was very sceptical about the whole thing and had it explained to me, in great detail, by someone I like and respect whose job it is to know about all this stuff. It takes a lot to make me change my views on anything......
This project is a Tory thing no?
 

Mer5eywhite

Forum Patron
Patron
Yes but it's all a conspiracy by experts to fuck over the north ;)

You're right, HS2 will increase capacity which is desperately needed
They could start elsewhere first. Hs2 is not a priority.

It takes close to an hour and often more to travel from Manchester to Leeds.
It generally takes over an hour to travel from Manchester to Liverpool (there are a few that take 35 minutes but nowhere near enough and they’re packed.

What we really need is extra capacity to get us all to London.
You keep telling yourself that, there’s a good lad.
 

jakehake

Preachs PA
Staff member
Patron
I’m still unsure of the times quoted as it takes the same time to reach Dorset from London as it does to reach Manchester almost despite being twice the distance. The rail system needs reworking without doubt but the faster HS2 line isn’t necessarily the answer I fear rather than joined up timetables between the operators
 

LancasterRed

Mad Scientist
Patron
I’m still unsure of the times quoted as it takes the same time to reach Dorset from London as it does to reach Manchester almost despite being twice the distance. The rail system needs reworking without doubt but the faster HS2 line isn’t necessarily the answer I fear rather than joined up timetables between the operators
A complete retimetabling would be a good start. Start everything again from scratch, first passenger services then freight services trying to limit 'Runs as required' paths to increase efficiency.

The idea that ministers get their cabinet roles despite having zero experience or ability in that role is a joke - and this applies to both Labour and the Tories. If, for example, you get in as minister of transport you should have some experience in the transport sector. That, and the House of Commons would need a full rework to allow this to happen as then you have people coming in without experience. I personally would have, say, Shapps be the voice in the commons but be mandated to express a certain viewpoint chosen by their 'head of transport' for which I would give a blank cheque to Alex Hornby and/or Barbara Morgante who have both demonstrated prior success in the transport sector.
 

jakehake

Preachs PA
Staff member
Patron
That most of the cabinet ever have any experience in the jobs they are doing is probably a big wish. But at the same time,the brexiters warned us about listening to experts. Better to have compete numpties in charge. As I’m sure we’ll find out
 

PNEESSEX

Forum Patron
Patron
They could start elsewhere first. Hs2 is not a priority.

It takes close to an hour and often more to travel from Manchester to Leeds.
It generally takes over an hour to travel from Manchester to Liverpool (there are a few that take 35 minutes but nowhere near enough and they’re packed.

What we really need is extra capacity to get us all to London.
You keep telling yourself that, there’s a good lad.
Way to go. That really helps your argument. Patronising and ill informed is always a winning combination - well done you
 
Last edited:

northender0602

Forum Patron
Patron
Well my lat experiences of being on the trains were not good, 3 hours plus to Chester and 3 hours plus to York. I could have pedalled a bike faster. an hour 30 to Manchester? Has anything changed over the last few years? It put me right off using trains
 

Mer5eywhite

Forum Patron
Patron
Way to go. That really helps your argument. Patronising and ill informed is always a winning combination - well done you
Sorry Essex but you need to have experienced the rail services up here to realise how 'patronising' the idea of knocking a bit of time off a journey to London really sounds.

You have your 'informed' opinion and I'll retain mine based only on first hand experience.
Chorley to Leeds, average journey time 2 hours 17 minutes. Distance between Chorley and Leeds = 45 miles.
Chorley to Liverpool, average journey time 2 hours 4 minutes. Distance between Chorley and Liverpool = 22 miles.

An integrated northern rail network would SMASH these times.

Sorry to sound patronising and ill informed.
 

PNEESSEX

Forum Patron
Patron
Sorry Essex but you need to have experienced the rail services up here to realise how 'patronising' the idea of knocking a bit of time off a journey to London really sounds.

You have your 'informed' opinion and I'll retain mine based only on first hand experience.
Chorley to Leeds, average journey time 2 hours 17 minutes. Distance between Chorley and Leeds = 45 miles.
Chorley to Liverpool, average journey time 2 hours 4 minutes. Distance between Chorley and Liverpool = 22 miles.

An integrated northern rail network would SMASH these times.

Sorry to sound patronising and ill informed.
Read up about Northern Powerhouse Rail....it's integrated with HS2. Look at the maps, that might explain how it will work and will connect Leeds, Liverpool, Manchester, Sheffield, Hull, Birmingham and London.

I repeat, it has never been about journey times between London and Birmingham, but feel free to wallow in ill informed resentment
 

Mer5eywhite

Forum Patron
Patron
Read up about Northern Powerhouse Rail....it's integrated with HS2. Look at the maps, that might explain how it will work and will connect Leeds, Liverpool, Manchester, Sheffield, Hull, Birmingham and London.

I repeat, it has never been about journey times between London and Birmingham, but feel free to wallow in ill informed resentment
Northern Powerhouse rail or something like it, needs to precede HS2.

As for 'wallowing in ill informed resentment' I really don't even know where to begin with that. I could spend the rest of today writing a response based both upon up to date information and personal experience. I can't be bothered and I haven't got time. I'll say just one thing:

'Resentment' and 'wallow' shouldn't go in the same sentence when it comes to this. Wallow implies that there is some perverse pleasure to be gained from this. There really isn't.
 

PNEESSEX

Forum Patron
Patron
Northern Powerhouse rail or something like it, needs to precede HS2.

As for 'wallowing in ill informed resentment' I really don't even know where to begin with that. I could spend the rest of today writing a response based both upon up to date information and personal experience. I can't be bothered and I haven't got time. I'll say just one thing:

'Resentment' and 'wallow' shouldn't go in the same sentence when it comes to this. Wallow implies that there is some perverse pleasure to be gained from this. There really isn't.
Since Northern Powerhouse Rail uses some of the HS2 infrastructure (look up the map), it's a little difficult to have the former before the latter. There is a reason why the politicians in the northern cities want both HS2 and NPR.....

For some reason, your argument seems to be predicated on the notion that HS2 and NPR are an either or proposition. Before you accuse me of being "northernist" can I be clear that I support both projects
 
Last edited:

Sepp Blatter

Goat Molester
Patron
Must admit, I am finding the whole HS2 debate to be a very interesting one. Definitely pros and cons to it from what I have read - my main concern is that all it will do is see Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester, and other metropolitan areas become 'mini-Londons,' cannibalising wealth from their surrounding areas and creating further economic, social, and political disconnection.
 

Mickypne

Advisor to the Owner
Been my argument from day one. Leaving Brexit in the hands of the Tories is foolhardy beyond belief.

It is what it is now, sadly
Jesus could you imagine if Corbyn was in charge of negotiations?? We'd just surrender and give the EU everything.
 
Top