So we’ve left.....

PNEESSEX

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Must admit, I am finding the whole HS2 debate to be a very interesting one. Definitely pros and cons to it from what I have read - my main concern is that all it will do is see Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester, and other metropolitan areas become 'mini-Londons,' cannibalising wealth from their surrounding areas and creating further economic, social, and political disconnection.
It's fascinating. I was initially very anti, not least because HS2 goes right through two areas where I spent my childhood (Leamington/Kenilworth area and Amersham) and the damage, at first glance, looked horrendous. However, over the last couple of years, as Ive looked into it and had the opportunity to talk in detail about it with a close friend of 40+ years who knows the scheme inside out (he's a specialist railway journo, author, "media whore" and magazine editor etc etc), I have been convinced of the positive impact of HS2 and NPR. What has been abundantly clear is that the level of misinformation is staggering, not helped by the woeful HS2 Ltd who appear to have cornered the market in inept PR activity. The ability to create greater capacity, put more freight onto the rails and separate out different types of train activity seems to me to be compelling and will enable local links to be more effective. I dont subscribe to the notion that it will be economically, socially and politically disruptive.
 

Sepp Blatter

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It's fascinating. I was initially very anti, not least because HS2 goes right through two areas where I spent my childhood (Leamington/Kenilworth area and Amersham) and the damage, at first glance, looked horrendous. However, over the last couple of years, as Ive looked into it and had the opportunity to talk in detail about it with a close friend of 40+ years who knows the scheme inside out (he's a specialist railway journo, author, "media whore" and magazine editor etc etc), I have been convinced of the positive impact of HS2 and NPR. What has been abundantly clear is that the level of misinformation is staggering, not helped by the woeful HS2 Ltd who appear to have cornered the market in inept PR activity. The ability to create greater capacity, put more freight onto the rails and separate out different types of train activity seems to me to be compelling and will enable local links to be more effective. I dont subscribe to the notion that it will be economically, socially and politically disruptive.
I'm still very much persuadable, but I'm still dubious about your final sentence - too many times, I have seen rural areas and places outside population centres ignored and their way of life disrupted through commuters and second homes pushing up house prices and putting them out of the reach of many.

If there is a plan to cope with this, fair enough, but I have not seen much about it, yet, and fear that cities will forge ahead and ignore everyone else.
 

26-0

Advisor to the Owner
Jesus could you imagine if Corbyn was in charge of negotiations?? We'd just surrender and give the EU everything.
Better to have Johnson doing it eh?

He was asked the question following his big speech this morning about signing a treaty to protect workers’ rights, the environment and consumers’ rights and his answer was an emphatic “NO - we’ve voted to get rid of that with the EU”.

So if you’re a worker, consumer or rely on the environment for the oxygen you breathe beware.
 

PNEESSEX

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I'm still very much persuadable, but I'm still dubious about your final sentence - too many times, I have seen rural areas and places outside population centres ignored and their way of life disrupted through commuters and second homes pushing up house prices and putting them out of the reach of many.

If there is a plan to cope with this, fair enough, but I have not seen much about it, yet, and fear that cities will forge ahead and ignore everyone else.
The HS2 section to Birmingham has no stations between Old Oak Common and Birmingham Curzon Street, so the idea that gazillions of commuters will be hopping on and off is fanciful
 

Sepp Blatter

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The HS2 section to Birmingham has no stations between Old Oak Common and Birmingham Curzon Street, so the idea that gazillions of commuters will be hopping on and off is fanciful
As per my original comment, I'm talking about the wider project and approach as a whole - not just the London - Birmingham part. Maybe connected to the wider debate about globalisation.

And, it remains a concern of mine built upon reading and personal experience - not something that is fanciful.
 

sliper

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Too late now it seems... but (just in case you missed my previous posts) I would scrap it and construct a hyperloop in multiple parallel north south tunnels !

Elon Musk put a price of $5 billion for a 350 mile connection between LA and SF..
Add on cost per mile of tunnelling $10 million = Total inc contingencies $5-15 billion. Total cost for two tunnels circa £20 billion
Add as many tunnels as you need to deal with high demand after first two are operational. Still a whole lot less than (old hat...not so ) HIGH SPEED2

One "fast" tunnelling machine can fully complete 1 mile of tunnel in 4-6 weeks. 8-12 miles of tunnel per machine per year. (See Las Vegas Convention centre tunnel project). 10 tunnelling machines.. would excavate 80-120 miles per annum. Completion of two north south tunnels in 4-5 years from go ahead.

Hyperloop has already been proposed for a Glasgow Edinburgh, Newcastle, Manchester link.

No very expensive landowners to buy off.. reduced surface and environmental impact.. hyperloop is faster than an aircraft.. fixed cost.. reduce aircraft journy's.. reduce time waiting at airports..

One of the first hyperloop's in the world for the region that pioneered railways and a bold post Brexit statement of commitment to dynamic high tech future.

 
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chorleythehord

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Was going to say a similar thing. I’m in favour of infrastructure spending and big vision projects , but the problems I see with this HS2 thing are

1. The cost. There is an astonishing amount of waste and uncommercial decisions being taken with Rip off fees, land beng bought out at prices which shout corruption, etc etc

2. The delay. By the time it is ready to open , other technology could have come along. The Elon Musk plan will become reality one day. Self driving cars could transform congestion. And they have the benefit of getting you from house to exact location without changing.

3. The lack of vision and joined up thinking. Looking at the route it is taking, we should be abandoning heathrow expansion, selling the land off for housing and building a new technology centre there. Then we should build our own “Shiphol” 4 runway hub airport just off the M40 somewhere near Oxford / Bicester with its own HS2 stop- ( get that past the locals! ).
 

KeithLard

Manager
I'm sure there are safety aspects around Hyperloop as an emerging type of travel. I'd prefer to see it done first before it was committed to by our Country.

Rail is still the best method, by far. I'm not sure on HS2 as I haven't studied it deeply, but some of the key elements give me hope:

Quicker to get around key cities (this includes existing network combined with HS2).
More room for freight on existing network means less lorries on our roads (massive, MASSIVE plus in my opinion)
More room for more local services, extended network, reopening / rebuilding of old lines to unserved towns

Time will tell.
 

PNEESSEX

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As per my original comment, I'm talking about the wider project and approach as a whole - not just the London - Birmingham part. Maybe connected to the wider debate about globalisation.

And, it remains a concern of mine built upon reading and personal experience - not something that is fanciful.
Creating more capacity on the existing lines will enable greater local rail traffic (passenger and freight) is one of HS2's most important impacts
 

PNEESSEX

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Too late now it seems... but (just in case you missed my previous posts) I would scrap it and construct a hyperloop in multiple parallel north south tunnels !

Elon Musk put a price of $5 billion for a 350 mile connection between LA and SF..
Add on cost per mile of tunnelling $10 million = Total inc contingencies $5-15 billion. Total cost for two tunnels circa £20 billion
Add as many tunnels as you need to deal with high demand after first two are operational. Still a whole lot less than (old hat...not so ) HIGH SPEED2

One "fast" tunnelling machine can fully complete 1 mile of tunnel in 4-6 weeks. 8-12 miles of tunnel per machine per year. (See Las Vegas Convention centre tunnel project). 10 tunnelling machines.. would excavate 80-120 miles per annum. Completion of two north south tunnels in 4-5 years from go ahead.

Hyperloop has already been proposed for a Glasgow Edinburgh, Newcastle, Manchester link.

No very expensive landowners to buy off.. reduced surface and environmental impact.. hyperloop is faster than an aircraft.. fixed cost.. reduce aircraft journy's.. reduce time waiting at airports..

One of the first hyperloop's in the world for the region that pioneered railways and a bold post Brexit statement of commitment to dynamic high tech future.

Interesting article regarding hyperloop technology

 

sliper

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Interesting article regarding hyperloop technology

It doesn't seem to have put Dubai off..
I seem to remember a few years back established rocket firms saying landing and reusing rockets could not be done..
 

Sepp Blatter

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Creating more capacity on the existing lines will enable greater local rail traffic (passenger and freight) is one of HS2's most important impacts
My point is that lowering journey times to London will have a wider effect - just over an hour from Manchester is about the same as journeys from Oxford and Bicester, which became sucked into the London property prices madness. If the same happens in Birmingham and Manchester, and they increasingly become commuter towns for London, then prices rise steeply and locals struggle to afford mortgages and rents.

In turn, forced out by high house prices, these people move to smaller towns and villages just outside those cities, creating a new commuter belt - house prices increase and communities in those places feel the effects.

Needs very careful management and, as Keith noted, joined up thinking. As I said, I fear that there will be economic, political, and social effects.
 

Liberation

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That most of the cabinet ever have any experience in the jobs they are doing is probably a big wish. But at the same time,the brexiters warned us about listening to experts. Better to have compete numpties in charge. As I’m sure we’ll find out

They warned you about listening to politicians as well.....
Especially those that are advised by experts.... " Lobbyists " I believe they are called....And I must be right or we wouldn't spend our lives on here bickering, there'd be no need to. :)
 
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