The “Trans” debate

Snicky

Thorium Indium Potassium
Patron
I’m surprised that this hasn’t been discussed in more detail on here to be honest.

The growing voice and influence of the “trans lobby” is getting more and more mainstream it seems, with dissenters and opponents getting all sorts of abuse and cancelling.

If people’s desires and actions are not affecting others, live and let live. But the whole debate is a lot more intricate than that and in the US there have been some recent bills/laws passed that have been deemed “anti-trans”. The basis of the laws that I can see are the fact that body changing treatments should be withheld from children and trans women (men) should not be allowed to participate in women’s sports.

You can identify as whatever you wish, hell, nobber identifies as a human being, but just because you feel that you are something you are not, does not mean that others have to accept the absurdity of it. The decision to change appearance and identity via medical means can only and should only be made available to adults who are capable of making rational and mature decisions. There should be medical assistance available to the very very small minority of genuine intersex people but not to kids.
As always real women will be the losers in all this, especially in the world of sports, where already many men have taken records, won trophies and in certain circumstances beaten the living shit out of real women in contact sports.

No matter what you feel you are, you are factually the same sex/gender as you were born. Feel free to pretend and identify as you wish, you have that right, just don’t expect everyone else, and expect it to be legally mandated, to agree with it and accept it.

Thoughts?
 

portisheadpete

Forum Patron
Patron

I’m surprised that this hasn’t been discussed in more detail on here to be honest.

The growing voice and influence of the “trans lobby” is getting more and more mainstream it seems, with dissenters and opponents getting all sorts of abuse and cancelling.

If people’s desires and actions are not affecting others, live and let live. But the whole debate is a lot more intricate than that and in the US there have been some recent bills/laws passed that have been deemed “anti-trans”. The basis of the laws that I can see are the fact that body changing treatments should be withheld from children and trans women (men) should not be allowed to participate in women’s sports.

You can identify as whatever you wish, hell, nobber identifies as a human being, but just because you feel that you are something you are not, does not mean that others have to accept the absurdity of it. The decision to change appearance and identity via medical means can only and should only be made available to adults who are capable of making rational and mature decisions. There should be medical assistance available to the very very small minority of genuine intersex people but not to kids.
As always real women will be the losers in all this, especially in the world of sports, where already many men have taken records, won trophies and in certain circumstances beaten the living shit out of real women in contact sports.

No matter what you feel you are, you are factually the same sex/gender as you were born. Feel free to pretend and identify as you wish, you have that right, just don’t expect everyone else, and expect it to be legally mandated, to agree with it and accept it.

Thoughts?

Sometimes I wish I was another animal. Much more straightforward. Im generally liberal towards minorities, but consider theres a lot of people carving out a life for themselves by electing a lifestyle, principally for attention seeking and/or playing the victim. Its natural. If you offer airtime, sympathy or admiration towards a group, it will encourage people in.

Plus, If the 3 oclock kickoff is further delayed out of respect for perm any other cause/death/minority, Im going to burst a blood vessel.
 
OP
Snicky

Snicky

Thorium Indium Potassium
Patron
Sometimes I wish I was another animal. Much more straightforward. Im generally liberal towards minorities, but consider theres a lot of people carving out a life for themselves by electing a lifestyle, principally for attention seeking and/or playing the victim. Its natural. If you offer airtime, sympathy or admiration towards a group, it will encourage people in.

Plus, If the 3 oclock kickoff is further delayed out of respect for perm any other cause/death/minority, Im going to burst a blood vessel.
I agree fully and that is the main reason why kids should not be offered medical surgical procedures.
 

Sepp Blatter

Liz Truss Groupie
Patron
I’m surprised that this hasn’t been discussed in more detail on here to be honest.

The growing voice and influence of the “trans lobby” is getting more and more mainstream it seems, with dissenters and opponents getting all sorts of abuse and cancelling.

If people’s desires and actions are not affecting others, live and let live. But the whole debate is a lot more intricate than that and in the US there have been some recent bills/laws passed that have been deemed “anti-trans”. The basis of the laws that I can see are the fact that body changing treatments should be withheld from children and trans women (men) should not be allowed to participate in women’s sports.

You can identify as whatever you wish, hell, nobber identifies as a human being, but just because you feel that you are something you are not, does not mean that others have to accept the absurdity of it. The decision to change appearance and identity via medical means can only and should only be made available to adults who are capable of making rational and mature decisions. There should be medical assistance available to the very very small minority of genuine intersex people but not to kids.
As always real women will be the losers in all this, especially in the world of sports, where already many men have taken records, won trophies and in certain circumstances beaten the living shit out of real women in contact sports.

No matter what you feel you are, you are factually the same sex/gender as you were born. Feel free to pretend and identify as you wish, you have that right, just don’t expect everyone else, and expect it to be legally mandated, to agree with it and accept it.

Thoughts?
I know older trans women who are absolutely dismayed by this - apart from pissing women off, who have always been very supportive of the trans community, when the inevitable backlash arrives, they will also be in the firing line. Every single one of them refers to themselves as a trans woman, not a woman, for what it's worth.

Quite a few in the LGBT community are starting to fight back, too - there is more than an undercurrent of misogyny and homophobia in some of the rhetoric from the most vocal trans activists. Lesbians are bearing the brunt of that, sadly.

The thing that worries me most is the changing of language. That is one of the most powerful ways there is of suppressing opposing opinions. And, uttering transphobe at anyone who does not agree.
 

Sepp Blatter

Liz Truss Groupie
Patron
Sometimes I wish I was another animal. Much more straightforward. Im generally liberal towards minorities, but consider theres a lot of people carving out a life for themselves by electing a lifestyle, principally for attention seeking and/or playing the victim. Its natural. If you offer airtime, sympathy or admiration towards a group, it will encourage people in.

Plus, If the 3 oclock kickoff is further delayed out of respect for perm any other cause/death/minority, Im going to burst a blood vessel.
Self-ID is the biggest problem - it lets too many people misuse that.
 
I'm not 100% sure it's the place to discuss some of the things I have unfortunately found out about the trans debate on here. Regardless to say, if you consider yourself a trans ally you have a duty of care to understand what that actually means right now. Hint, it is long past being about supporting the rights of transexuals (who's rights are enshrined in British law and have been for years, despite what trans activists try and claim), in fact some of the more hardcore trans activists call transexuals scum. I'll stand side by side with any transexual to make sure they can live their best lives, I can't however call myself a trans ally any more because of the people and causes that are driving trans activism.
 

Sepp Blatter

Liz Truss Groupie
Patron
I'm not 100% sure it's the place to discuss some of the things I have unfortunately found out about the trans debate on here. Regardless to say, if you consider yourself a trans ally you have a duty of care to understand what that actually means right now. Hint, it is long past being about supporting the rights of transexuals (who's rights are enshrined in British law and have been for years, despite what trans activists try and claim), in fact some of the more hardcore trans activists call transexuals scum. I'll stand side by side with any transexual to make sure they can live their best lives, I can't however call myself a trans ally any more because of the people and causes that are driving trans activism.
^This - same here.
 

Preston Lad

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿
Patron
To many kids who are vulnerable and at certain times unsure of their sexual feelings, are being led to think they are gay or whatever, they should be supported, but not led to believe that they are this that or the other. They need to find their own way.
Exactly.

For years I thought I was gay but now I realise it was just a phase.

My boyfriend even agrees with me.
 

Mer5eywhite

Forum Patron
Patron
Couldn't be anyone more qualified to comment eh.
The thing is it’s so obvious I can’t believe it is even debated.
If you knew a female, teenage athlete had taken growth hormone and had therefore developed longer limbs and thus greater leverage, would that not be classed as unfairly gaining an advantage?

For anyone with a modicum of common sense left it’s a complete no- brainier.
 

pnesaint

First Team
The obvious answer is to have 3 competitions - one for men, one for women and one for trans.

Can you imagine a Trans Premier League match? You might end up with a team of women with dicks playing a team of men with fannies! Who will win, the testosterone enhancers or the testosterone blockers! The way the western world is going it will happen.
 

Liberation

Forum Patron
Patron
The thing is it’s so obvious I can’t believe it is even debated.
If you knew a female, teenage athlete had taken growth hormone and had therefore developed longer limbs and thus greater leverage, would that not be classed as unfairly gaining an advantage?

For anyone with a modicum of common sense left it’s a complete no- brainier.

Of course it's unfair.I've never been able to understand the counter argument. I've no problem with someone who makes a life choice and changes sex but to then insist on competing in female sports after being a man is nothing short of ridiculous.
 

portisheadpete

Forum Patron
Patron
The obvious answer is to have 3 competitions - one for men, one for women and one for trans.

Can you imagine a Trans Premier League match? You might end up with a team of women with dicks playing a team of men with fannies! Who will win, the testosterone enhancers or the testosterone blockers! The way the western world is going it will happen.

Would get started. The team of men would object to playing with a ball. Would need to rename it as a spherical object.
 
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