The Labour Party are cockwombles .....

raefil

Shit Fan
Patron
The 10 pledges, forced on them by the right wing, tory supporting Board of Deputies means that in my lifetime we will have a Tory govt into perpetuity.

Any true socialists will be purged on trumped up charges of being Jew haters. Its quite simple for the BoD because Labour signed up to a set of goalposts with wheels on that will constantly be on the move.

If proof were ever needed Starmer was more afraid of the BoD than he was of Labours own legal team and also the statement from the EHRC that the leadership team shouldnt be making, "Political," decisions .to overule the disciplinary processes of the party
 

stf4ever

Manager
The 10 pledges, forced on them by the right wing, tory supporting Board of Deputies means that in my lifetime we will have a Tory govt into perpetuity.

Any true socialists will be purged on trumped up charges of being Jew haters. Its quite simple for the BoD because Labour signed up to a set of goalposts with wheels on that will constantly be on the move.

If proof were ever needed Starmer was more afraid of the BoD than he was of Labours own legal team and also the statement from the EHRC that the leadership team shouldnt be making, "Political," decisions .to overule the disciplinary processes of the party

As somebody who doesn't really know, can I ask why you claim the BoD as right wing and tory supporting? Their website claims they're non-party political.
 

Strongbow

Forum Patron
Patron
As somebody who doesn't really know, can I ask why you claim the BoD as right wing and tory supporting? Their website claims they're non-party political.

The APPG on British Jews brings together politicians on all sides of the political spectrum to broaden and deepen the connection between Parliament and the Jewish community.

It focuses on a wide variety of issues which affect the Jewish community, including religious freedom, welfare, social action, education, Holocaust issues and international affairs.

The current Co-Chairs are Paul Masterton MP (CON) and Wes Streeting MP (Labour).
 
Like Raefil, I joined the Labour Party in the 1970's. At my first ward meeting I met a local councillor and shop steward at BAC (as it was then). She was one of those matriarch figures that were the backbone of the Party. After the meeting she said to me: "Welcome to the Labour Party! I'm pleased you've joined. Always remember, no one person is bigger than the Party." That maxim has always stayed with me.

In making the statement that he did after the EHRC findings, Jeremy Corbyn broke that unwritten rule. He put himself, his self-image, above the Party. In order to get his suspension lifted by the disciplinary panel, he retracted just enough to allow the very panel that the EHRC criticised for being politically compromised, the room to let him back in. He should have apologised for the fact that anti-semitism had become an issue in the Party under his leadership, but his ego wouldn't let him.

I voted for him in the first leadership election, not because I thought he was PM material, but because he was the only candidate to take the Party's membership seriously on policy issues. My hope was that in two to three years he would have brought through a younger successor with a much better skill set to be Party leader first and then PM.

Unfortunately along came the personality cult and the bunker mentality, and the rest is history.

Do I believe that instances of anti-semitism within the Party grew under JC's leadership? Yes.
Do I believe that some national figures within the Party conflated instances of anti-semitism from non-members as a stick with which to beat JC? Yes.
Do I believe that JC and his bunker crew allowed the second issue to obscure the first to the detriment of the Party? Yes. Guilty as charged m'lud.

Raef has disparagingly referred to the anti-semitism suddenly appearing from nowhere in 2016 as if it was a mirage, or a fairy story concocted by the establishment to do down Jeremy Corbyn. I would only ask that he considers this: the election of Corbyn as Party leader brought about an explosive growth in Party membership that the Party's machinery was overwhelmed by. There was no chance for the usual socialisation process to take place, for new members to learn the norms of behaviour within a political party. I also think that some people became members who shouldn't have been anywhere near it.

A friend of mine from student days has been a Party member all her adult life, and is currently deputy leader of the Labour Group on her Council. Like myself she was in the "soft left" camp in the Party, and she just happens to be Jewish. Her husband has been a national figure in the Party, belonging to its right wing, and there has been a mutual antipathy between him and Corbyn for many years. In the last three years, she and her two twenty-something daughters have been the subject of what the Police believe to be highly credible rape and death threats focussed on their Jewishness rendering them unfit to be in the Labour Party. I wept when I heard of this. Other less extreme examples have come to me from friends in the West Midlands.

Do I agree with everything in the new definition of anti-semitism that the Labour Party has signed up to? No. Do I blame Keir Starmer for the fact that we've signed up to this? No. We have come to this place because of the short-comings of his predecessor, who is too proud and blinkered to apologise for his mistakes.
 

raefil

Shit Fan
Patron
Like Raefil, I joined the Labour Party in the 1970's. At my first ward meeting I met a local councillor and shop steward at BAC (as it was then). She was one of those matriarch figures that were the backbone of the Party. After the meeting she said to me: "Welcome to the Labour Party! I'm pleased you've joined. Always remember, no one person is bigger than the Party." That maxim has always stayed with me.

In making the statement that he did after the EHRC findings, Jeremy Corbyn broke that unwritten rule. He put himself, his self-image, above the Party. In order to get his suspension lifted by the disciplinary panel, he retracted just enough to allow the very panel that the EHRC criticised for being politically compromised, the room to let him back in. He should have apologised for the fact that anti-semitism had become an issue in the Party under his leadership, but his ego wouldn't let him.

I voted for him in the first leadership election, not because I thought he was PM material, but because he was the only candidate to take the Party's membership seriously on policy issues. My hope was that in two to three years he would have brought through a younger successor with a much better skill set to be Party leader first and then PM.

Unfortunately along came the personality cult and the bunker mentality, and the rest is history.

Do I believe that instances of anti-semitism within the Party grew under JC's leadership? Yes.
Do I believe that some national figures within the Party conflated instances of anti-semitism from non-members as a stick with which to beat JC? Yes.
Do I believe that JC and his bunker crew allowed the second issue to obscure the first to the detriment of the Party? Yes. Guilty as charged m'lud.

Raef has disparagingly referred to the anti-semitism suddenly appearing from nowhere in 2016 as if it was a mirage, or a fairy story concocted by the establishment to do down Jeremy Corbyn. I would only ask that he considers this: the election of Corbyn as Party leader brought about an explosive growth in Party membership that the Party's machinery was overwhelmed by. There was no chance for the usual socialisation process to take place, for new members to learn the norms of behaviour within a political party. I also think that some people became members who shouldn't have been anywhere near it.

A friend of mine from student days has been a Party member all her adult life, and is currently deputy leader of the Labour Group on her Council. Like myself she was in the "soft left" camp in the Party, and she just happens to be Jewish. Her husband has been a national figure in the Party, belonging to its right wing, and there has been a mutual antipathy between him and Corbyn for many years. In the last three years, she and her two twenty-something daughters have been the subject of what the Police believe to be highly credible rape and death threats focussed on their Jewishness rendering them unfit to be in the Labour Party. I wept when I heard of this. Other less extreme examples have come to me from friends in the West Midlands.

Do I agree with everything in the new definition of anti-semitism that the Labour Party has signed up to? No. Do I blame Keir Starmer for the fact that we've signed up to this? No. We have come to this place because of the short-comings of his predecessor, who is too proud and blinkered to apologise for his mistakes.
Thanks for that, fair comments and well put.

Just one question, particularly as a long standing member, like myself. Its one of Ive asked of so many other members.

Have you personally witnessed any acts of antisemitism or Racism from any that you know to be members of the Labour party?
 

Strongbow

Forum Patron
Patron
Thanks for that, fair comments and well put.

Just one question, particularly as a long standing member, like myself. Its one of Ive asked of so many other members.

Have you personally witnessed any acts of antisemitism or Racism from any that you know to be members of the Labour party?

Fookin desperate :

A friend of mine from student days has been a Party member all her adult life, and is currently deputy leader of the Labour Group on her Council. Like myself she was in the "soft left" camp in the Party, and she just happens to be Jewish. Her husband has been a national figure in the Party, belonging to its right wing, and there has been a mutual antipathy between him and Corbyn for many years. In the last three years, she and her two twenty-something daughters have been the subject of what the Police believe to be highly credible rape and death threats focussed on their Jewishness rendering them unfit to be in the Labour Party. I wept when I heard of this. Other less extreme examples have come to me from friends in the West Midlands.

Yeh I know but forget all that have 'you' witnessed owt ..... your a fookin clown Raefil !!!!!!!
 

Regardless

Forum Patron
Patron
.
Like Raefil, I joined the Labour Party in the 1970's. At my first ward meeting I met a local councillor and shop steward at BAC (as it was then). She was one of those matriarch figures that were the backbone of the Party. After the meeting she said to me: "Welcome to the Labour Party! I'm pleased you've joined. Always remember, no one person is bigger than the Party." That maxim has always stayed with me.

In making the statement that he did after the EHRC findings, Jeremy Corbyn broke that unwritten rule. He put himself, his self-image, above the Party. In order to get his suspension lifted by the disciplinary panel, he retracted just enough to allow the very panel that the EHRC criticised for being politically compromised, the room to let him back in. He should have apologised for the fact that anti-semitism had become an issue in the Party under his leadership, but his ego wouldn't let him.

I voted for him in the first leadership election, not because I thought he was PM material, but because he was the only candidate to take the Party's membership seriously on policy issues. My hope was that in two to three years he would have brought through a younger successor with a much better skill set to be Party leader first and then PM.

Unfortunately along came the personality cult and the bunker mentality, and the rest is history.

Do I believe that instances of anti-semitism within the Party grew under JC's leadership? Yes.
Do I believe that some national figures within the Party conflated instances of anti-semitism from non-members as a stick with which to beat JC? Yes.
Do I believe that JC and his bunker crew allowed the second issue to obscure the first to the detriment of the Party? Yes. Guilty as charged m'lud.

Raef has disparagingly referred to the anti-semitism suddenly appearing from nowhere in 2016 as if it was a mirage, or a fairy story concocted by the establishment to do down Jeremy Corbyn. I would only ask that he considers this: the election of Corbyn as Party leader brought about an explosive growth in Party membership that the Party's machinery was overwhelmed by. There was no chance for the usual socialisation process to take place, for new members to learn the norms of behaviour within a political party. I also think that some people became members who shouldn't have been anywhere near it.

A friend of mine from student days has been a Party member all her adult life, and is currently deputy leader of the Labour Group on her Council. Like myself she was in the "soft left" camp in the Party, and she just happens to be Jewish. Her husband has been a national figure in the Party, belonging to its right wing, and there has been a mutual antipathy between him and Corbyn for many years. In the last three years, she and her two twenty-something daughters have been the subject of what the Police believe to be highly credible rape and death threats focussed on their Jewishness rendering them unfit to be in the Labour Party. I wept when I heard of this. Other less extreme examples have come to me from friends in the West Midlands.

Do I agree with everything in the new definition of anti-semitism that the Labour Party has signed up to? No. Do I blame Keir Starmer for the fact that we've signed up to this? No. We have come to this place because of the short-comings of his predecessor, who is too proud and blinkered to apologise for his mistakes.
very thoughtful and interesting post - and bad story about your friend :(
I am not steeped in Labour or any political party (though have made involuntary and voluntary financial donations to Labour and supported Liberals for long periods too).

I think your post is a little harsh on Corbyn although as I’ve said in recent posts, it does feel like his response to the EHRC report was written in coded language and your analysis of the reasoning may possibly be closer to reality to the in I proposed earlier.
It is excruciating to see Labour rip itself apart again. Do I blame Corbyn? Well - I can see why he is so angry at Starmer apparently cleansing the party- which I think Corbyn tried to do from his own side. If only there could be a middle ground, they might actually be electable- rather than leaving the Tory Party to do anything they want.
 

wld

Forum Patron
Patron
Thanks for that, fair comments and well put.

Just one question, particularly as a long standing member, like myself. Its one of Ive asked of so many other members.

Have you personally witnessed any acts of antisemitism or Racism from any that you know to be members of the Labour party?

I haven’t, and I know you didn’t ask me, but that doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened. I’ve criticised Tories on another thread for saying Patel can’t be a bully because they haven’t see her so it’s probably only fair to make the same point here.

Meldrew has said it has happened to friends of his, something that’s disgraceful and shocking. The obvious personal nature of what he’s said has shocked me.
 

raefil

Shit Fan
Patron
I haven’t, and I know you didn’t ask me, but that doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened. I’ve criticised Tories on another thread for saying Patel can’t be a bully because they haven’t see her so it’s probably only fair to make the same point here.

Meldrew has said it has happened to friends of his, something that’s disgraceful and shocking. The obvious personal nature of what he’s said has shocked me.
Id just like clearing up that it was actually verified Labour members that did it.

On too many occasions these incidents have turned out to be none members.

Like yourself I never witnessed a single incident and in discussions at my CLP not one person knew of anything from members.
 

LostinSpace

PNE Exile
Patron
Do I believe that instances of anti-semitism within the Party grew under JC's leadership? Yes.
Do I believe that some national figures within the Party conflated instances of anti-semitism from non-members as a stick with which to beat JC? Yes.
Do I believe that JC and his bunker crew allowed the second issue to obscure the first to the detriment of the Party? Yes. Guilty as charged m'lud.
I'm not sure it was. Anti Zionist, definitely, but anti Semitic? :unsure: Unfortunately the media and Daily Heil readers don't understand the difference.

It was definitely an attack on the Labour Party by right wing media and others.
 
Thanks for that, fair comments and well put.

Just one question, particularly as a long standing member, like myself. Its one of Ive asked of so many other members.

Have you personally witnessed any acts of antisemitism or Racism from any that you know to be members of the Labour party?

No, but then again, I'm not sure that I've been to any meetings since 2016. I think that the only meetings that were called in that time - certainly since 2017 -were selection meetings, usually with at best one week's notice - or at least they were the only ones that I was invited to 😀. I'm not on tw@tter and tend to limit my membership of other social media platforms as you can meet some very strange people on them.

Then again, I've never been to Australia, but I believe my friends who have and say that it is real.

I resigned from the Party in February 2019 in a kind of existential despair. The failure of national leadership, the selfish agenda of the right wing in the Parliamentary Party, the fact that I was regularly referring to my MP as "the Invisible Man", the lack of Ward meetings in my local Party etc led me to a place where I felt that the only way that I could register how I felt was by resigning. I subsequently found out that I was one of four friends from student times decades before, who had all resigned - completely independently of each other - within a six week period. It felt like the end of an era.

I may rejoin in 2021. It doesn't feel right not being in the Party that I will always identify with, I just don't know if I can summon up the energy to.
 
I'm not sure it was. Anti Zionist, definitely, but anti Semitic? :unsure: Unfortunately the media and Daily Heil readers don't understand the difference.

It was definitely an attack on the Labour Party by right wing media and others.

But I do, and I know what I wrote. I view myself as a critic of many of the actions of the Israeli state, but I don't attack people verbally or physically because they are Jewish. A small minority within the Labour Party (0.03%?) have been accused of anti-Semitic actions. Some people may have let their anger at the actions of the state boil over into racism.

I think that your last sentence falls within the of the second point of mine that you quoted.
 
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