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The Plastics Thread.

Durutti

Advisor to the Owner
Yes it is pot calling the kettle black, but you appear to be the pot calling the kettle gold.

As has been stated. They have had nearly two decades in the premier league, they've got the facilities off the back of that and they have still only managed to finish above us once in the last 7 years.

That's embarrassing, not light years ahead of us.

Similarly, over that last 7 years, they've literally brought in 3 players that have cost them more than half a million, in Armstrong, Brereton and Gallagher. The vast vast majority of their signings have been freebies. They've sold Rhodes, Gestede, Cairney (all 3 in the same summer), Armstrong, and I'll give you Hanley and Duffy. I imagine Brereton will go this summer too. That's not Brentford or Brighton's model, no matter how you try and spin it with their DoF and pointless manager, it's basically ours. Again, not light years ahead.

The only aspects on which I'll accept they're light years ahead is their training ground and their youth facilities. But as stated at the start, that's what two decades of premiership money plus a wealthy benefactor who wants to see you achieve success well do for you.

More than welcome to peddle a narrative, but at least ensure it's factual.

What makes JDT a 'pointless' manager? That makes little sense and how is the appointments inferior to Lowe's.

Agreed, light years ahead in terms of youth investment and facilities.

I've not said it's Brighton's or anyone elses model. It's a plan. I haven't seen one from PNE for many a year and neither have you, no matter how you try and dress that up. As said, light years ahead, embarrassing, whatever you want to call it.
 

Rodney Bewes

Forum Patron
Patron
And here is everyone criticising Rovers for selling players on to cover costs. If you sell players to renew contracts that's exactly what you are doing?
Literally almost every club makes a loss and so has to make money from somewhere. If you aren't in the Premier League, you're probably making a loss and so selling players is the main way that clubs survive (outside of the generosity of the ownership). The difference between us and Blackburn is that our money went towards players, their money hasn't really gone anywhere visible
 

stf4ever

Forum Patron
Patron
What makes JDT a 'pointless' manager? That makes little sense and how is the appointments inferior to Lowe's.

Agreed, light years ahead in terms of youth investment and facilities.

I've not said it's Brighton's or anyone elses model. It's a plan. I haven't seen one from PNE for many a year and neither have you, no matter how you try and dress that up. As said, light years ahead, embarrassing, whatever you want to call it.

I was semi quoting you, who said that it doesn't matter if JDT is a flop or not with a DoF in place.

What's the plan though? Who have they produced out of their own academy? How have they progressed under the Venky's? How is having a plan that sees them spending less than ourselves in most transfer windows whilst recouping more and finishing below us in all but one of the last 7 seasons being light years ahead of us?

The only thing embarrassing is your continual banging of this drum. There is absolutely no evidence to back it up. The Venky's didn't put in place the youth system or the training ground.

And this isn't me hating on Blackburn or supporting our current set up, if they were a well run club like Brentford or Brighton I could agree we were light years behind. I just think there's plenty better hills to die on criticising our current set up than to compare it to Rovers, who have also done fuck all for several years with a vastly larger wage bill than ourselves.
 

Rodney Bewes

Forum Patron
Patron
The Venky's didn't put in place the youth system or the training ground.

And this isn't me hating on Blackburn or supporting our current set up, if they were a well run club like Brentford or Brighton I could agree we were light years behind. I just think there's plenty better hills to die on criticising our current set up than to compare it to Rovers, who have also done fuck all for several years with a vastly larger wage bill than ourselves.
This ☝️
 

RibbletonWhite

Advisor to the Owner
What makes JDT a 'pointless' manager? That makes little sense and how is the appointments inferior to Lowe's.

Agreed, light years ahead in terms of youth investment and facilities.

I've not said it's Brighton's or anyone elses model. It's a plan. I haven't seen one from PNE for many a year and neither have you, no matter how you try and dress that up. As said, light years ahead, embarrassing, whatever you want to call it.

What is blackburns plan? You keep on banging on about this plan but I fail to see what it is? Selling players to cover costs isn’t a forward thinking plan. It’s shit.

You haven’t seen one from Blackburn either. As someone mentioned comparing our model to Brentford and Brighton yes I agree they are way ahead. But comparing our model to a team who as you said ‘sell players to cover costs.’ Fucking hell what a great model to follow. How on earth is that a model lights years ahead.

You mention how we failed to reinvest the hugil money. And we did. But you are trying to say Blackburn have a model lights years ahead despite doing the exact same thing we did.

No matter how you dress it up Blackburn’s model is embarrassing just as ours have been.

You keep on forgetting other points as well. Their director failed to reinvest the Armstrong money and let two of their best players leave for nothing. Ridsdale did the same thing with us last season yet got slated for it. Yet their ‘Savy’ DOF should get praised for it? Can you explain how this is good business and what we should do to ensure we let our players leave for nothing like Blackburn did as this model is clearly the next big thing. I mean they did win the league last season.
 

RibbletonWhite

Advisor to the Owner
I was semi quoting you, who said that it doesn't matter if JDT is a flop or not with a DoF in place.

What's the plan though? Who have they produced out of their own academy? How have they progressed under the Venky's? How is having a plan that sees them spending less than ourselves in most transfer windows whilst recouping more and finishing below us in all but one of the last 7 seasons being light years ahead of us?

The only thing embarrassing is your continual banging of this drum. There is absolutely no evidence to back it up. The Venky's didn't put in place the youth system or the training ground.

And this isn't me hating on Blackburn or supporting our current set up, if they were a well run club like Brentford or Brighton I could agree we were light years behind. I just think there's plenty better hills to die on criticising our current set up than to compare it to Rovers, who have also done fuck all for several years with a vastly larger wage bill than ourselves.

Spot on. He’s dug himself a big hole
Now and can’t get out of it and rather than admitting he was wrong he is just going to keep on digging and digging.
 

Rodney Bewes

Forum Patron
Patron
What is blackburns plan? You keep on banging on about this plan but I fail to see what it is? Selling players to cover costs isn’t a forward thinking plan. It’s shit.

You haven’t seen one from Blackburn either. As someone mentioned comparing our model to Brentford and Brighton yes I agree they are way ahead. But comparing our model to a team who as you said ‘sell players to cover costs.’ Fucking hell what a great model to follow. How on earth is that a model lights years ahead.

You mention how we failed to reinvest the hugil money. And we did. But you are trying to say Blackburn have a model lights years ahead despite doing the exact same thing we did.

No matter how you dress it up Blackburn’s model is embarrassing just as ours have been.

You keep on forgetting other points as well. Their director failed to reinvest the Armstrong money and let two of their best players leave for nothing. Ridsdale did the same thing with us last season yet got slated for it. Yet their ‘Savy’ DOF should get praised for it? Can you explain how this is good business and what we should do to ensure we let our players leave for nothing like Blackburn did as this model is clearly the next big thing. I mean they did win the league last season.
Arguably Blackburn are worse at the model than we are. They've let Rothwell and Lenihan go for free. We at least got money for Pearson and Davies (basically naff all but still more than they got for Rothwell and Lenihan)
 

Durutti

Advisor to the Owner
What is blackburns plan? You keep on banging on about this plan but I fail to see what it is? Selling players to cover costs isn’t a forward thinking plan. It’s shit.

You haven’t seen one from Blackburn either. As someone mentioned comparing our model to Brentford and Brighton yes I agree they are way ahead. But comparing our model to a team who as you said ‘sell players to cover costs.’ Fucking hell what a great model to follow. How on earth is that a model lights years ahead.

You mention how we failed to reinvest the hugil money. And we did. But you are trying to say Blackburn have a model lights years ahead despite doing the exact same thing we did.

No matter how you dress it up Blackburn’s model is embarrassing just as ours have been.

You keep on forgetting other points as well. Their director failed to reinvest the Armstrong money and let two of their best players leave for nothing. Ridsdale did the same thing with us last season yet got slated for it. Yet their ‘Savy’ DOF should get praised for it? Can you explain how this is good business and what we should do to ensure we let our players leave for nothing like Blackburn did as this model is clearly the next big thing. I mean they did win the league last season.


Director of football, head coach model. I've said Blackburn's model isn't great, it's just a lot better than our own hence the bringing on of youth, the better league positions and better recruitment in instances such as Armstrong. My initial was simply
a) the Venkys are shit at running football clubs, it's embarrassing they are light years ahead of us at doing that ('let that sink in')
B) JDT isn't on the face of it a bad appointment given the clear structure they now have.

I literally haven't even mentioned finances until you have with Armstrong/Hugill and the obvious similarities.

Again, I realise it's not what you want to hear but would you honestly put £50 on us finishing above Rovers this season?
 

stf4ever

Forum Patron
Patron
Director of football, head coach model. I've said Blackburn's model isn't great, it's just a lot better than our own hence the bringing on of youth, the better league positions and better recruitment in instances such as Armstrong. My initial was simply
a) the Venkys are shit at running football clubs, it's embarrassing they are light years ahead of us at doing that ('let that sink in')
B) JDT isn't on the face of it a bad appointment given the clear structure they now have.

I literally haven't even mentioned finances until you have with Armstrong/Hugill and the obvious similarities.

Again, I realise it's not what you want to hear but would you honestly put £50 on us finishing above Rovers this season?

I'll have a £50 wager with you that Blackburn finish below us in the league.
 

Durutti

Advisor to the Owner
I'll have a £50 wager with you that Blackburn finish below us in the league.

Fair play. I actually meant it hypothetically, I don't bet but have to admire your enthusiasm. What's it based on?

Sorry I am not getting the North End positivity at the minute at all. Three signings in the Woodman vein might bring me into the Lowe is god crew but I just look at a lot of other teams this season, like Sunderland as an example and think, 'it's gonna be another mediocre one'. The division is definitely going to be tougher, surely?

I spent so much of last season under Lowe worried that tactically he doesn't have a clue.
 

RibbletonWhite

Advisor to the Owner
Director of football, head coach model. I've said Blackburn's model isn't great, it's just a lot better than our own hence the bringing on of youth, the better league positions and better recruitment in instances such as Armstrong. My initial was simply
a) the Venkys are shit at running football clubs, it's embarrassing they are light years ahead of us at doing that ('let that sink in')
B) JDT isn't on the face of it a bad appointment given the clear structure they now have.

I literally haven't even mentioned finances until you have with Armstrong/Hugill and the obvious similarities.

Again, I realise it's not what you want to hear but would you honestly put £50 on us finishing above Rovers this season?

But again you are talking out of your ass. ‘Better league positions.’ They have one better league position than us in the last seven years.

Again - clear structure. What clear structure? Letting their best players leave. Selling players and failing to replace.

In all fairness you might as well have given up after the first sentence because I would love to know what made up seasons Blackburn have finished above us over the past few years.

Let the fact we have been a better performing team than Blackburn since promotion over sink it. How you can argue about that is bemusing.
 

RibbletonWhite

Advisor to the Owner
Fair play. I actually meant it hypothetically, I don't bet but have to admire your enthusiasm. What's it based on?

Sorry I am not getting the North End positivity at the minute at all. Three signings in the Woodman vein might bring me into the Lowe is god crew but I just look at a lot of other teams this season, like Sunderland as an example and think, 'it's gonna be another mediocre one'. The division is definitely going to be tougher, surely?

I spent so much of last season under Lowe worried that tactically he doesn't have a clue.

Blackburn letting their two best players go and bereton probably leaving.

I’m not saying ‘Lowe is god’ just the Blackburn model is as shit as ours.

That’s why they hardly do better than us. But hey they’ve had better seasons than us apparently.

Also I would put 100 quid on rovers finishing below us like they have in 6 out of the last seven season.
 

Durutti

Advisor to the Owner
But again you are talking out of your ass. ‘Better league positions.’ They have one better league position than us in the last seven years.

Again - clear structure. What clear structure? Letting their best players leave. Selling players and failing to replace.

In all fairness you might as well have given up after the first sentence because I would love to know what made up seasons Blackburn have finished above us over the past few years.

Let the fact we have been a better performing team than Blackburn since promotion over sink it. How you can argue about that is bemusing.

I didn't make that argument though, I couldn't give a fuck about seven seasons ago. What the actual fuck are you on about?

My point was/is that going forward into this season, they look in a much better state than we currently do. There's no need to piss your pants about that. It's a different opinion to yours. If you think we will finish above Rovers and JDT is a terrible appointment and DoF HeadCoach structures are crap, wonderful. Good for having a different opinion to mine. Nobody is right and nobody is wrong, you are just literally making up arguments with yourself that I haven't made.

Go and have a lie down. Enjoy the season, you're clearly very passionate about it.
 

stf4ever

Forum Patron
Patron
Fair play. I actually meant it hypothetically, I don't bet but have to admire your enthusiasm. What's it based on?

Sorry I am not getting the North End positivity at the minute at all. Three signings in the Woodman vein might bring me into the Lowe is god crew but I just look at a lot of other teams this season, like Sunderland as an example and think, 'it's gonna be another mediocre one'. The division is definitely going to be tougher, surely?

I spent so much of last season under Lowe worried that tactically he doesn't have a clue.

Based on the fact they've finished below us in 6 out of the last 7 seasons, the fact they've lost their best defender and arguably their best midfielder on a free transfer. As well, of course, as the likelihood they'll lose their top goalscorer and, based on their last few transfer windows, not spend heavily to recruit a replacement. Also based on the fact that their manager has never managed in a league anywhere near as competitive as The Championship.
 

Durutti

Advisor to the Owner
Based on the fact they've finished below us in 6 out of the last 7 seasons, the fact they've lost their best defender and arguably their best midfielder on a free transfer. As well, of course, as the likelihood they'll lose their top goalscorer and, based on their last few transfer windows, not spend heavily to recruit a replacement. Also based on the fact that their manager has never managed in a league anywhere near as competitive as The Championship.

Fair dues, hope you are right.

I'm worried you've not mentioned us much though ☺️
 

RibbletonWhite

Advisor to the Owner
I didn't make that argument though, I couldn't give a fuck about seven seasons ago. What the actual fuck are you on about?

My point was/is that going forward into this season, they look in a much better state than we currently do. There's no need to piss your pants about that. It's a different opinion to yours. If you think we will finish above Rovers and JDT is a terrible appointment and DoF HeadCoach structures are crap, wonderful. Good for having a different opinion to mine. Nobody is right and nobody is wrong, you are just literally making up arguments with yourself that I haven't made.

Go and have a lie down. Enjoy the season, you're clearly very passionate about it.

You said Blackburn structure is miles ahead of us and that they have had better seasons (plural yes?) than us. It’s not me who needs a lie down coming up with false information.

In a years time when I get my winnings I’ll get you a Blackburn Rovers season ticket. You are clearly very passionate about their structure and seem to think allowing their best players leave for nothing and failing to replace players who leave is something all clubs should aspire to.

A fantastic model considering they got the ‘finishing five points above preston’ trophy last season.
 

Coley

Chief Chicken Plucker
Fair comments mate. I stand by what I said, there's a plan there and just by it being not shit, it's light years ahead of whatever we will be doing.

A proper football savy DoF and a manager who has won trophies in Europe. Also, a longer term strategy IF/when that manager starts failing. Here, 'trust in Lowe'.
Absolutely spot on @Durutti. One of very few on here who can look at things logically without letting bitterness towards Rovers cloud their thinking. Fair play to you for standing your ground.

Rovers are miles ahead of Preston, whether people like it or not. Ask yourselves this, if there was a managerial vacancy this summer, would Preston have been able to attract JDT? Not a chance of it for me. JDT isn't some no mark appointment, as some are trying to imply. This is a title winner as a manager and a player. Lowe doesn't even come anywhere close in terms of pedigree, charisma, ambition, contacts or an eye for a player.

Of course there is a plan at Rovers. To bring through highly rated Academy products and have them supported by quality like Rothwell, Dack, Armstrong, Brereton. Some of those are moved on for big fees and new talent is found.

Now the project has gone up a gear with a European structure put in place via the Head Coach/DoF model. Rovers now find themselves looking at Scandinavian and other European talent as JDT brings in his own ideas. The plan is to go back up. That's in complete contrast to whatever Lowe and Ridsdale have in mind. Is there even a plan at North End? Which set of fans has more cause for optimism and excitement ahead of next season? Hence, who is light years ahead of the other when it comes to a plan?

The 'savvy DoF' Durutti refers to is the new man, Gregg Broughton. He's responsible for bringing JDT to the table and he means business, as will be seen over the next few weeks. He will be dealing with transfers/contracts from now on.

Why have Rovers transfer/contract dealings been poor over recent years? Because of people like Steve Waggott who don't know their arse from their elbow, people who have tried to call player's bluffs and have ended up looking stupid at the end of it. Broughton is in now though and he is a different kettle of fish entirely.

Rovers turned up at Deepdale last season and embarrassed PNE. A fact. Rovers finished above Preston last season. A fact. Rovers have a plan with a Head Coach/DoF in place and are aiming to go up. A fact.

Durutti isn't wrong on this.
 

Mer5eywhite

Forum Patron
Patron
Absolutely spot on @Durutti. One of very few on here who can look at things logically without letting bitterness towards Rovers cloud their thinking. Fair play to you for standing your ground.

Rovers are miles ahead of Preston, whether people like it or not. Ask yourselves this, if there was a managerial vacancy this summer, would Preston have been able to attract JDT? Not a chance of it for me. JDT isn't some no mark appointment, as some are trying to imply. This is a title winner as a manager and a player. Lowe doesn't even come anywhere close in terms of pedigree, charisma, ambition, contacts or an eye for a player.

Of course there is a plan at Rovers. To bring through highly rated Academy products and have them supported by quality like Rothwell, Dack, Armstrong, Brereton. Some of those are moved on for big fees and new talent is found.

Now the project has gone up a gear with a European structure put in place via the Head Coach/DoF model. Rovers now find themselves looking at Scandinavian and other European talent as JDT brings in his own ideas. The plan is to go back up. That's in complete contrast to whatever Lowe and Ridsdale have in mind. Is there even a plan at North End? Which set of fans has more cause for optimism and excitement ahead of next season? Hence, who is light years ahead of the other when it comes to a plan?

The 'savvy DoF' Durutti refers to is the new man, Gregg Broughton. He's responsible for bringing JDT to the table and he means business, as will be seen over the next few weeks. He will be dealing with transfers/contracts from now on.

Why have Rovers transfer/contract dealings been poor over recent years? Because of people like Steve Waggott who don't know their arse from their elbow, people who have tried to call player's bluffs and have ended up looking stupid at the end of it. Broughton is in now though and he is a different kettle of fish entirely.

Rovers turned up at Deepdale last season and embarrassed PNE. A fact. Rovers finished above Preston last season. A fact. Rovers have a plan with a Head Coach/DoF in place and are aiming to go up. A fact.

Durutti isn't wrong on this.

Single use plastic alert.
 
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