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UK Politics

Realistic said:
Don't care what he thinks, "may I say" Major (even if he is right). What about him having it off with Currie on the premises (both married)
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Obviously to do what he did was immoral and improper - but that was consenting adults having an affair, something that is not going to impact the general public and the public purse.

Having said that, his back to basics declaration was naive in the extreme, almost giving an open goal to journalists to go to town on every single misdemeanour. Of course Major lost people due to their wrong doings - maybe that’s why Johnson refuses to get rid of Ministers proven to have broken rules? Or maybe it’s because he suspects he’ll be found guilty himself very shortly.
 
Sepp Blatter said:
I swallowed my distaste and listened to it. Didn't sway me from my view that he is a tool.

Governments have always done this - that is my point. Riding roughshod over procedure to invade Iraq or lock up journalists (people seem to have such short memories!). Trying to cover up sex scandals. Again, nothing to do with Brexit - it is something that they have always tried to do.

I saw a government that went to war on lies and bullied a good man to his death. I saw government ministers taking junkets and bending over for moneyed interests - and trying to attack civil liberties under the guise of protecting us.

Shall we go back further to the sleaze of Major's 'Back to Basics'?

Get rid of Johnson, vote in the authoritarian Starmer and the cycle will continue.

Political history did not start in 2016.
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We will have semi-agree/disagree. You're making some very good points... but not really addressing some of the core issue. Right from the start of this exchange, I've repeatedly said that the point he's making is nothing fundamentally to do with Brexit. And it's clear that governments HAVE always covered things up - big and small. But IMO, none have covered them up in plain sight like this one. They push the boundaries... and than row back a bit if they find they've really gone TOO far. It is not a trite analogy to say that this behaviour is exactly how abusive personal relationships are often groomed by an abuser.

The only way this is 'anything to do with Brexit' is that the topic has had the population spellbound and polarised. And they have found that they can do anything they like, with little or no attempt to hide their actions - and as soon as they get into murky waters, they just need to blow the Brexit whistle, and we all figuratively rush back to our polarised positions, and attention on the latest scandal is lost.

Over time, we have, as a population, become conditioned... and each time this game is played, we accept worse and worse behaviour before we kick back... and so the cycle of population-abuse continues downwards. An abuse of power.
 
Regardless said:
We will have semi-agree/disagree. You're making some very good points... but not really addressing some of the core issue. Right from the start of this exchange, I've repeatedly said that the point he's making is nothing fundamentally to do with Brexit. And it's clear that governments HAVE always covered things up - big and small. But IMO, none have covered them up in plain sight like this one. They push the boundaries... and than row back a bit if they find they've really gone TOO far. It is not a trite analogy to say that this behaviour is exactly how abusive personal relationships are often groomed by an abuser.

The only way this is 'anything to do with Brexit' is that the topic has had the population spellbound and polarised. And they have found that they can do anything they like, with little or no attempt to hide their actions - and as soon as they get into murky waters, they just need to blow the Brexit whistle, and we all figuratively rush back to our polarised positions, and attention on the latest scandal is lost.

Over time, we have, as a population, become conditioned... and each time this game is played, we accept worse and worse behaviour before we kick back... and so the cycle of population-abuse continues downwards. An abuse of power.
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I disagree - governments have always been riddled with corruption and attempts to cover things up in plain sight. This lot are no different and are merely carrying on that tradition. This lot are fucking awful, but they are no worse than Blair's government when it comes to corruption, lies, manipulating parliament, and distraction.

As I said, people seem to have short memories.

That's just the UK, btw - corruption and breaking rules seems to be the norm, sadly. They are all at it! Look upwards at why the system allows this.

I will go back to my original point about O'Brien, which was absolutely nothing to do with Brexit. When Labour had a chance of overturning the Tories, he did everything he could to work against them. The self-aggrandising fool got what he wanted and he is now whinging about it.

So, excuse me if I don't buy his faux outrage.
 
Regardless said:
We will have semi-agree/disagree. You're making some very good points... but not really addressing some of the core issue. Right from the start of this exchange, I've repeatedly said that the point he's making is nothing fundamentally to do with Brexit. And it's clear that governments HAVE always covered things up - big and small. But IMO, none have covered them up in plain sight like this one. They push the boundaries... and than row back a bit if they find they've really gone TOO far. It is not a trite analogy to say that this behaviour is exactly how abusive personal relationships are often groomed by an abuser.

The only way this is 'anything to do with Brexit' is that the topic has had the population spellbound and polarised. And they have found that they can do anything they like, with little or no attempt to hide their actions - and as soon as they get into murky waters, they just need to blow the Brexit whistle, and we all figuratively rush back to our polarised positions, and attention on the latest scandal is lost.

Over time, we have, as a population, become conditioned... and each time this game is played, we accept worse and worse behaviour before we kick back... and so the cycle of population-abuse continues downwards. An abuse of power.
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We are on a far different plain from before. In terms if scale fraud, billions rather than millions being offered corruptly to political allies, as well as an infiltration of business tycoons into politics to feed their future mega wealth. No previous govt has sought directly to systematically dismantle the regulatory framework for their own ends. Previous politicians may have been corrupt but they operated and were restricted within that framework.
 
Sepp Blatter said:
I disagree - governments have always been riddled with corruption and attempts to cover things up in plain sight. This lot are no different and are merely carrying on that tradition. This lot are fucking awful, but they are no worse than Blair's government when it comes to corruption, lies, manipulating parliament, and distraction.

As I said, people seem to have short memories.

That's just the UK, btw - corruption and breaking rules seems to be the norm, sadly. They are all at it! Look upwards at why the system allows this.

I will go back to my original point about O'Brien, which was absolutely nothing to do with Brexit. When Labour had a chance of overturning the Tories, he did everything he could to work against them. The self-aggrandising fool got what he wanted and he is now whinging about it.

So, excuse me if I don't buy his faux outrage.
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To be truthful, Sepp, this bunch really have taken it all to an entirely new level. In all my lifetime the nearest to what theyre doing was Blairs Iraq debacle.

This bunch are just plain corrupt to the core and frankly, i dont think many of us have time for Obrien, but they really have used Brexit as a cover for eroding the laws and customs of this land.

I completely understand your despising of the EU but its that very despising that theyre using to cover up all the wrongdoings that Johnson and his govt are committing on almost a daily basis.

Im glad Obrien spoke out and yes he did use brexit too much but, by god, his monologue was pretty much on the mark.

I`ll say this again, about Brexit, I honestly think Brexit could work, for this country, but there isnt a cat in hells chance it will work for the 95% with this present govt at the helm.

We are in a mess and where we go from here, I dont know, but I do know we cant carry on as we are.
 
Naughty Tories...

Full Story Link Here

Exclusive: Costa del Sol property firms owned by Goldsmith family ordered to pay €24m in unpaid taxes and fines

The luxury villa where Boris Johnson stayed on holiday last month is linked to Costa del Sol property businesses owned by Zac Goldsmith’s family that engaged in a multimillion-pound tax evasion scheme, according to Spanish courts.

Court papers obtained by the Guardian show tax inspectors ordered two property companies owned by the Goldsmith family to pay €24m (£20m) in unpaid taxes and fines after investigating what they said was a suspicious property deal.

The tax authority’s findings have been upheld by one of Spain’s highest courts, with judges agreeing the companies effectively engaged in a deliberate effort to evade tax and committed “serious” violations of the law.

Documents indicate Spanish authorities are still seeking to recover the funds and could even seize parts of the family’s land, which is spread across more than 600 hectares (1,480 acres) of private woodland about 10 miles from the Marbella coastline.

A Swiss lawyer for one of the companies denied the case amounted to a “tax evasion” issue, describing it as a dispute that resulted from a mistaken land valuation by Spanish tax authorities. She said the finding against her client was “extremely hard to understand, to put it mildly”. Court papers indicate there will be a further appeal.
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So with a Cop deal imminent which those in the know are predicting will not reduce emissions anywhere near enough to reduce climate catastrophe, what next?
It seems to me that capitalism in its current form is unable to adapt to the drastic changes needed.
It seems to me that it is time for some radical thinking, the market forces which the Tories worship and the rest of the major parties play passive partners to.
I'm looking at the folks glueing themselves to motorways and thinking the disruption they're causing is minor in comparison to what is coming.
We can't leave this shit to our kids and thier grandkids.
Time to say NO to the world's governments, but how?
Mass civil disobedience?
 
nigelscamelcoat said:
So with a Cop deal imminent which those in the know are predicting will not reduce emissions anywhere near enough to reduce climate catastrophe, what next?
It seems to me that capitalism in its current form is unable to adapt to the drastic changes needed.
It seems to me that it is time for some radical thinking, the market forces which the Tories worship and the rest of the major parties play passive partners to.
I'm looking at the folks glueing themselves to motorways and thinking the disruption they're causing is minor in comparison to what is coming.
We can't leave this shit to our kids and thier grandkids.
Time to say NO to the world's governments, but how?
Mass civil disobedience?
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Properly worried?
 
daddyman16 said:
What, because Boris looks like an untrustworthy gremlin people have woken up all of a sudden?
I don't trust these polls, probably said it before, it's about knee jerk reactions and people seem to have incredibly short memories, especially at the ballot box.

Back to a CON lead by next month I reckon.
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A short war usually fixes it for them
 
nigelscamelcoat said:
So with a Cop deal imminent which those in the know are predicting will not reduce emissions anywhere near enough to reduce climate catastrophe, what next?
It seems to me that capitalism in its current form is unable to adapt to the drastic changes needed.
It seems to me that it is time for some radical thinking, the market forces which the Tories worship and the rest of the major parties play passive partners to.
I'm looking at the folks glueing themselves to motorways and thinking the disruption they're causing is minor in comparison to what is coming.
We can't leave this shit to our kids and thier grandkids.
Time to say NO to the world's governments, but how?
Mass civil disobedience?
Click to expand...
Very worrying.

Sadly we’ve seen how international co-operation works with Brexit and Covid. And the stakes are far greater with climate change.

Most people don’t care whether those in far away countries lose their land, their access to water and food and ultimately their lives. Just so long as they don’t turn up in their millions upon our shores expecting to save themselves.

I get the impression that still the vast majority of people in this country regard it as a relatively minor issue that won’t affect them much. How could they possibly accept that what environmental activists have been saying for such a long time is right when they’ve always regarded such people as nutters. Hand- wringing merchants of doom according to Thatcher.

The title of this thread shows the idiotic, uneducated opinion that prevails here - “ the great unwashed”. People are more interested in denigrating others with different views rather than listening and educating themselves.

And, as we argue amongst ourselves we see the effects with unprecedented climate events even in the UK. Not just something that will affect people in other countries or just our children and grandchildren we’ll all be victims of it.

Imagine if behind the scenes the arms race was accelerating ready to exploit the situation and pick over the scraps.
 
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