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UK Energy Crisis

Sepp Blatter

Ursula Fanboy
Patron
I was dealing with raw data, before it had the chance to be watered down or embellished.
They write research papers and white papers to influence policy - therefore, these papers are what matters. In turn, these are challenged, others look at the data and produce their own papers, and people can arrive at conclusions based upon this debate. As I said, I have seen nothing that suggests fracking will deliver anywhere near the benefits claimed - it also has to fit in with wider energy research and policy otherwise it has no meaningful context. For example, if you make the economic argument, then you have to bring in alternatives, look at trends, predict the future, and balance the costs and benefits. The Levelized Cost of Energy does not stack up for fracking in Europe, especially given the timescale - even fossil fuel companies have become more pessimistic.

I have seen nothing within the fracking literature to suggest that it is a viable answer. It will be obsolete before it comes anywhere near producing significant amounts of gas - if it does at all.
 

outreacher

Respect Nature
Patron
I finally got round to binge-watching the documentary “Big Oil v The World”. Look it up on iPlayer if you haven’t seen it.

It seems that the arguments for fracking have already been fully investigated - and the results are dreadful. It’s just that these findings were buried by the oil industry and replaced by false, favourable ones. Unless that nasty BBC was making it up.
I watched that, depressing, Big Oil shitting on everyone in their pursuit of money.
 

outreacher

Respect Nature
Patron
I was dealing with raw data, before it had the chance to be watered down or embellished.

What I am trying to say is that I'm only commenting on the facts that I know and that I have seen for myself.

As ever I have no comment on the guaranteed future and viability of fracking, only from my experience that it is far from a closed book, based on the evidence gathered from PNR. And we need to investigate it.
It should be a closed book in this country, ripping up the surface of this small Island in search of gas. Need to concentrate on self-sustaining ways to keep warm, invest in peoples homes, insulation, and other energy sources. Why are you in support of Oil Companies, they don't give a fuck about you, me, anyone or any other thing walking or growing on this planet, their sole motivation is profit.
 

outreacher

Respect Nature
Patron

'Hope you are listening Liz someone is talking to you'.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/20/un-secretary-general-tax-fossil-fuel-companies-climate-crisis

‘Polluters must pay’: UN secretary general calls for tax on fossil fuel companies​

Countries should impose windfall taxes on fossil fuel companies and divert the money to vulnerable nations suffering worsening losses from the climate crisis, the United Nations secretary general has urged.

António Guterres said that “polluters must pay” for the escalating damage caused by heatwaves, floods, drought and other climate impacts, and demanded that it is “high time to put fossil fuel producers, investors and enablers on notice.”

“Today, I am calling on all developed economies to tax the windfall profits of fossil fuel companies,” Guterres said in a speech to the UN general assembly on Tuesday. “Those funds should be re-directed in two ways – to countries suffering loss and damage caused by the climate crisis and to people struggling with rising food and energy prices.”
 

Liberation

Forum Patron
Patron
It should be a closed book in this country, ripping up the surface of this small Island in search of gas. Need to concentrate on self-sustaining ways to keep warm, invest in peoples homes, insulation, and other energy sources. Why are you in support of Oil Companies, they don't give a fuck about you, me, anyone or any other thing walking or growing on this planet, their sole motivation is profit.


I know it's not fashionable but unless someone comes up with something new ( they probably have but it'll piss on big business ) then we can only revert to nuclear in tandem with forward thinking and innovation... I know that I've a tendency toward conspiracy theories but there are many documented inventions that were shelved or disappeared due to pound notes and the chunts with vested interests....
 

Sepp Blatter

Ursula Fanboy
Patron
It should be a closed book in this country, ripping up the surface of this small Island in search of gas. Need to concentrate on self-sustaining ways to keep warm, invest in peoples homes, insulation, and other energy sources. Why are you in support of Oil Companies, they don't give a fuck about you, me, anyone or any other thing walking or growing on this planet, their sole motivation is profit.
The cost I have seen quoted for exploring the hundreds of wells needed to make it anywhere near commercially viable are steep, even if we take the more optimistic predictions about the actual amount of available gas from fracking. That money could be spent on completely upgrading the UK's electricity infrastructure - the improved efficiency, lower line losses, and higher reliability would contribute as much as the potential of fracking. The UK could also support insulation and other energy efficiency programmes - these would also create jobs.

Did read a few interesting publications suggesting that, if we need gas for the transition, rejuvenating existing North Sea fields would be more profitable, especially with new technologies. Sounds interesting. Still have the issue of energy markets, but that is a different argument!
 

Liberation

Forum Patron
Patron
The cost I have seen quoted for exploring the hundreds of wells needed to make it anywhere near commercially viable are steep, even if we take the more optimistic predictions about the actual amount of available gas from fracking. That money could be spent on completely upgrading the UK's electricity infrastructure - the improved efficiency, lower line losses, and higher reliability would contribute as much as the potential of fracking. The UK could also support insulation and other energy efficiency programmes - these would also create jobs.

Did read a few interesting publications suggesting that, if we need gas for the transition, rejuvenating existing North Sea fields would be more profitable, especially with new technologies. Sounds interesting. Still have the issue of energy markets, but that is a different argument!

How about bringing back coal?............ tin hat on:)
 

Liberation

Forum Patron
Patron
Economically unviable, believe it or not - coal power stations (especially scrubbed coal) are very expensive to build compared to other types of generation.


I was thinking of jobs , communities and a return to heating that we can all afford... It worked once. If we are all going to fry then why not do it together?... No? ..Okay then back to nuclear :)
 

Sepp Blatter

Ursula Fanboy
Patron
I was thinking of jobs , communities and a return to heating that we can all afford... It worked once. If we are all going to fry then why not do it together?... No? ..Okay then back to nuclear :)
Think those days are gone in the UK - and I get your drift completely! Coal prices are going up pretty steeply, too.
 

nigelscamelcoat

Advisor to the Owner
The cost I have seen quoted for exploring the hundreds of wells needed to make it anywhere near commercially viable are steep, even if we take the more optimistic predictions about the actual amount of available gas from fracking. That money could be spent on completely upgrading the UK's electricity infrastructure - the improved efficiency, lower line losses, and higher reliability would contribute as much as the potential of fracking. The UK could also support insulation and other energy efficiency programmes - these would also create jobs.

Did read a few interesting publications suggesting that, if we need gas for the transition, rejuvenating existing North Sea fields would be more profitable, especially with new technologies. Sounds interesting. Still have the issue of energy markets, but that is a different argument!
Study out today concludes that a home insulation program would boost the economy by £9b.
 

Sepp Blatter

Ursula Fanboy
Patron
Study out today concludes that a home insulation program would boost the economy by £9b.
Yup - one of the staples of the pro-fracking argument is that it will create jobs. However, that ignores the fact that other measures also create jobs - insulating homes, as you said, and replacing electrical infrastructure will create a lot of jobs and put money into the economy.
 

Spavin Stardust

Forum Patron
Patron
How about bringing back coal?............ tin hat on:)
The current few coal fired power stations are set to be shut in 2023/24 along with a swathe of currently generating nuclear power stations from 2023 to 2030. I am not sure how long they can keep old power stations creaking on well past their planned closure dates. Without cheap energy the current financial and ecomonic model is well and truly fucked beyond belief. Tick, tock, tick, tock.......
 

Liberation

Forum Patron
Patron
The current few coal fired power stations are set to be shut in 2023/24 along with a swathe of currently generating nuclear power stations from 2023 to 2030. I am not sure how long they can keep old power stations creaking on well past their planned closure dates. Without cheap energy the current financial and ecomonic model is well and truly fucked beyond belief. Tick, tock, tick, tock.......

That one seems to have gone out the window already.. tick tock indeed ..... Don't we just love capitalism ? :)
 
OP
J

jakehake

Preachs PA
Staff member
Patron
Then where do the fumes from your gas fire go? Everyones got a chimley.. :)

Come on Libs, it’s a big old world out there. Have saved a fortune on chimney sweeps

Though weirdly you’ve probably answered the question about why I’ve got a higher rated socket/switch on one wall in the lounge. Baffled me since I moved in but I reckon it’s for an electric fire isn’t it. Who knew that’s what they did
 

outreacher

Respect Nature
Patron
Then where do the fumes from your gas fire go? Everyones got a chimley.. :)
Not so, Twickenham ground floor, 2 bed, conservatory, front and rear gardens, parking 2 cars.
Chimney on the roof, fireplace long since gone. Before we bought.

Brent, I bed, 1st floor flat, bedroom converted loft. Chimney on roof, used for my ariel.
Doubt it ever had a fireplace, converted house. Freeholder on ground floor.

Neither have functioning chimneys.
 
OP
J

jakehake

Preachs PA
Staff member
Patron
Though I knew I had a fake chimney on my roof I never realised most of the neighbours didn’t even have that. They spend more effort designing places to fit in with what was previously there in a lot of cases so whether it only had chimneys on the end buildings it replaced. Sadly our row was the vagrant and mental wards of the workhouse apparently.

98B8216C-5DDA-473B-A743-6A0DBC311DF8.jpeg
 

Sepp Blatter

Ursula Fanboy
Patron
Though I knew I had a fake chimney on my roof I never realised most of the neighbours didn’t even have that. They spend more effort designing places to fit in with what was previously there in a lot of cases so whether it only had chimneys on the end buildings it replaced. Sadly our row was the vagrant and mental wards of the workhouse apparently.

View attachment 9324
Some would argue it still is...:D :p

On a serious note, though - that must be an interesting but also very sad history to look into.
 
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