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Uncle Trev.

F

Farmboy

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Joined
Jun 30, 2017
Messages
1,380
Location
Ormskirk
Just been reading about the financial mess that Bolton are in on the bbc sport site, people coming in to take over the club with no sound backing, fly by night, fur coat and no knickers, massive loans taken out, etc etc, we should be eternally grateful that we have an owner who has his head screwed on when it comes to the value of money. Some fans need to think twice b4 they start whinging about how our club is run !
 
I had thought about mentioning this but never had the right place. Now I do (thanks).

In about Jan 2014 the club (under Hemmings control) carried out a debt restructure.

Before your eyes glaze over, this meant removing a debt of 33m. He removed that debt by changing it into the share ownership.

Some important points here: most of that debt was to Hemmings himself - so he's only going to get that back now if the company is successful - otherwise it's money that he has written off.

It gets better... when he bought the club, it came with about 6m debt to banks. With interest, that would have gone up by 2014... quite a bit in fact.

BUT In 2014, all of the bank debt was also eliminated - converted to shares.

These are facts.
 
epsilon;n3425740 said:
I had thought about mentioning this but never had the right place. Now I do (thanks).

In about Jan 2014 the club (under Hemmings control) carried out a debt restructure.

Before your eyes glaze over, this meant removing a debt of 33m. He removed that debt by changing it into the share ownership.

Some important points here: most of that debt was to Hemmings himself - so he's only going to get that back now if the company is successful - otherwise it's money that he has written off.

It gets better... when he bought the club, it came with about 6m debt to banks. With interest, that would have gone up by 2014... quite a bit in fact.

BUT In 2014, all of the bank debt was also eliminated - converted to shares.

These are facts.
Click to expand...

The majority of the loan from Hemmings is still there.

Preston North End Football Club Limited is a subsidiary of Preston North End Limited which is owned by Deepdale PNE Holdings Limited

Deepdale PNE Holdings Ltd had outstanding loans of £30,705,000 at the end of the 2016/17 financial year. In the year 2016/17 the accrued interest on the loans of £3,709,000 was written off and the loans are now interest free. The loans to Deepdale PNE Holdings Ltd come from Grovemoor Limited, this is a shell company through which (I assume) Hemmings funds his investments.
 
This has obviously been done to death and people have different views.
Mine is that I won’t look at Trevor Hemmings as our saviour because many people have put more of their wealth into PNE than he has.
With the training ground shambles and summer recruitment failures I think many people’s opinions of him may be wavering.
He was never going to be a Jack Walker but he needs to speak to the fans and give us an honest update.
And yes.....I would still rather have our situation than others not too far away but that doesn’t make it right.
 
Farmboy;n3425733 said:
Just been reading about the financial mess that Bolton are in on the bbc sport site, people coming in to take over the club with no sound backing, fly by night, fur coat and no knickers, massive loans taken out, etc etc, we should be eternally grateful that we have an owner who has his head screwed on when it comes to the value of money. Some fans need to think twice b4 they start whinging about how our club is run !
Click to expand...

I think fans are free to whinge about how the club is run. Trevor is, in a lot of people's eyes, the saviour he's cracked up to be. People can appreciate what he does for the club and still be critical of him.
 
Farmboy;n3425733 said:
Just been reading about the financial mess that Bolton are in on the bbc sport site, people coming in to take over the club with no sound backing, fly by night, fur coat and no knickers, massive loans taken out, etc etc, we should be eternally grateful that we have an owner who has his head screwed on when it comes to the value of money. Some fans need to think twice b4 they start whinging about how our club is run !
Click to expand...

to be fair to Ken I think he was brought in to help his mate and club legend 'dean Holdsworth' only to discover that the promised money from DH's company was more 'unicorn' to coin a curent phrase......When DH had to leave it left KA holding an expensive baby......which he is not great at doing !..
 
The only thing that you can say is that these clubs always seem to survive and in some cases go on to bigger and better things.

Not that I wouldn’t want them to survive, but it does tend to piss you off a bit.

Just on the theme of looking for new investors I notice Beckham has joined his pals in investing in Salford City, can see us playing them on level terms in the near future, one way or another.
 
Walton;n3425845 said:
He possibly means on a pro rata percentage level? Maybe?
Click to expand...

Because as we've shown over the years, the money we receive from gate receipts and the club shop has pretty much delivered us top flight football consistently. I'm surprised Trevor hasn't changed tack and bought a season ticket and a scarf and replica shirt instead. There really are some monumentally special people supporting this club.
 
LostinYorkshire;n3425785 said:
The majority of the loan from Hemmings is still there.

Preston North End Football Club Limited is a subsidiary of Preston North End Limited which is owned by Deepdale PNE Holdings Limited

Deepdale PNE Holdings Ltd had outstanding loans of £30,705,000 at the end of the 2016/17 financial year. In the year 2016/17 the accrued interest on the loans of £3,709,000 was written off and the loans are now interest free. The loans to Deepdale PNE Holdings Ltd come from Grovemoor Limited, this is a shell company through which (I assume) Hemmings funds his investments.
Click to expand...

As of the 2017 accounts (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/...gzN2FkaXF6a2N4/document?format=pdf&download=0), the figure stood at £30.65m with "no fixed repayment date".

I assume this means that Hemmings could pull the plug and take his money back any time but since there isn't the money in the club to do this now he'd either have to sell it to someone else or the club would have to become profitable.
 
He could do something similar to Oyston, he could flog Pearson, Robinson and Davies, he could pay himself back and anything he got selling the club would be a bonus.
 
Yoowell;n3425791 said:
Mine is that I won’t look at Trevor Hemmings as our saviour because many people have put more of their wealth into PNE than he has.
Click to expand...

Ah yes and of course if I was as rich as Trevor I'd immediately hand over £100M to spend on transfers. After all, I'd be rich, I could afford it and I can't take it with me...
 
simo;n3425923 said:
As of the 2017 accounts (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/...gzN2FkaXF6a2N4/document?format=pdf&download=0), the figure stood at £30.65m with "no fixed repayment date".

I assume this means that Hemmings could pull the plug and take his money back any time but since there isn't the money in the club to do this now he'd either have to sell it to someone else or the club would have to become profitable.
Click to expand...

He can't simply pull the plug, he would have to withdraw his financial support and put the club into administration. The administrators would then have to find someone to take over the club and Hemmings might get some of his money back from the 'new owners' but he also risks getting nothing.

Even if the club became profitable it would have to put the retained profit into positive territory before any dividends could be paid, in 2017 retained profits were negative £17.5million.

So to get his money back he would need to sell the club for more than it owes him.
 
Walton;n3425926 said:
He could do something similar to Oyston, he could flog Pearson, Robinson and Davies, he could pay himself back and anything he got selling the club would be a bonus.
Click to expand...

Not quite that simple. Unless a company has retained profits they can't pay cash out to the shareholders. PNE has negative retained profits.
 
I don’t profess to know the ins and outs of it but if there was money in the bank(from outgoing transfers) could they not pay back loans?

I only compared it with Oyston because as I understood it they got Prem cash and he pocketed it somehow? Only guessing.
 
Walton;n3425947 said:
I don’t profess to know the ins and outs of it but if there was money in the bank(from outgoing transfers) could they not pay back loans?

I only compared it with Oyston because as I understood it they got Prem cash and he pocketed it somehow? Only guessing.
Click to expand...

He could decide to repay the loans out of cash but would need to leave enough money in the kitty to keep the club going.

With Blackpool between 2011 and 2015 the club made very big profits (total retained profit = £36million) and very little of this was spent on players while the owners payed themsleves huge salaries. In 2011 the directors of BFC paid themselves £11million.
 
I think when we look back on his time here it will be as a 6/10.

he has the resources to allow us to compete in this league and yet the only times he has allowed any significant investment have been when we have been flirting with the drop (hopefully this time goes better than the last!)

yes he stabilised the club and his financial constraints have forced us to follow a path of recruitment that I am personally very fond of and yet it could have been so much more.
 
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