Vote of No Confidence

paddysr

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Regardless

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Winkytinky;n3423088 said:
I don't expect they'll lose the vote but it'll be quite ironic that those who don't think she's fit to lead the Conservative party and voted against her the other month will vote to keep her running the country so she's not fit to lead their party but the countrys got to suffer her.
I obviously see the irony... but these really are two different votes and I don't see it as "ridiculous", as paddy does.

It would be a hell of a step for a Conservative MP, in a government voted in by the people until summer 2022, to have more confidence in a probable Corbyn-led Labour government than in their own conservative government, even if they're really unhappy with the way it's being led.

If I was a Tory MP, I'd want a new leader (so may well have voted against May last month)... but (from that perspective), a Corbyn government would be a much worse prospect than a May led Tory government.

(to be clear, I'm just making sense of the situation... not giving a personal view!)
 

paddysr

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Regardless;n3423217 said:
I obviously see the irony... but these really are two different votes and I don't see it as "ridiculous", as paddy does.

It would be a hell of a step for a Conservative MP, in a government voted in by the people until summer 2022, to have more confidence in a probable Corbyn-led Labour government than in their own conservative government, even if they're really unhappy with the way it's being led.

If I was a Tory MP, I'd want a new leader (so may well have voted against May last month)... but (from that perspective), a Corbyn government would be a much worse prospect than a May led Tory government.

(to be clear, I'm just making sense of the situation... not giving a personal view!)
If the vote of no confidence goes against her the Tories have 14 days to form a new government with a new leader...
 

raefil

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paddysr;n3423229 said:
If the vote of no confidence goes against her the Tories have 14 days to form a new government with a new leader...
worth remembering that even if she wins tomorrow its only the start of the process. It took 6 Noconfidence motions to eventually bring Callaghan down.
 

paddysr

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raefil;n3423233 said:
worth remembering that even if she wins tomorrow its only the start of the process. It took 6 Noconfidence motions to eventually bring Callaghan down.
I think the Tories saw this coming as I'm sure it was said earlier they only put back in play that anyone voting against the government in such a vote would be expelled last year.
 

raefil

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LostinYorkshire;n3423154 said:
I would say the problem is more the way party leaders are elected.

We would have much better leaders if we used a system like in the US where every registrered voter chooses which party they support and then votes for the leader of that party. That leader then remains in place for the whole 5 year term of parliament.

For certain it would eliminate the internal plotting by MPs if they knew they couldn't change leader during the term of a parliament and the leader could get on with governing rather than managing internal party politics.
Careful youll get accused of being a republican next :)
 

Ando60

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raefil;n3423083 said:
she will probably win the NC vote however she will also know that there is no way any progress will be made that doesnt involve all sections of Parliament. We should get,now, what it should have been right from day one. A cross party working party to progress this forward.

Ive said that from day one, no way should Brexit ever have been done in the "Ideological," manner that the Tories attempted to do. Its way to big a deal for that crap.
Spot on Phil... we were saying this at work today .

there should have been a cross party group set up from day one !
 

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paddysr;n3423229 said:
If the vote of no confidence goes against her the Tories have 14 days to form a new government with a new leader...
raefil;n3423233 said:
worth remembering that even if she wins tomorrow its only the start of the process. It took 6 Noconfidence motions to eventually bring Callaghan down.
I didn't know that.

I always thought that a no-confidence vote in the government was technically non-binding but in reality, would always spell the immediate end to that government.
 

raefil

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Regardless;n3423271 said:
I didn't know that.

I always thought that a no-confidence vote in the government was technically non-binding but in reality, would always spell the immediate end to that government.
Im sure he won the first 5, got taken down on the 6th
 

Regardless

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raefil;n3423274 said:
Im sure he won the first 5, got taken down on the 6th
OK... I thought you meant he lost 6.

So do you think my understanding is wrong? Maybe paddy's statement is technically true... but the reality is that if any no-confidence vote is passed, that that is indeed a certain General Election
 

raefil

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Regardless;n3423279 said:
OK... I thought you meant he lost 6.

So do you think my understanding is wrong? Maybe paddy's statement is technically true... but the reality is that if any no-confidence vote is passed, that that is indeed a certain General Election
Historically the govt of the day resigns, and a general election is called.
 

Regardless

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raefil;n3423280 said:
Historically the govt of the day resigns, and a general election is called.
But I did just see on the news that Paddy is indeed right. They say that they do have 14 days to regain confidence - by whatever means... but it does sound like it's the norm for the govt to resign there and then.

Having said that, if ever there was a government / prime minister who might ignore that norm....
 

John T

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Labour winning? Forget it it’s not going to happen

True different sections of the Tory Party voted against it last night, BUT for different reasons

Both sections will look in the Mirror today and think, what will our Constituency Party’s make of us voting against the Government in a No Confidence vote. The would either be ‘politely’ asked to stand down or be deselected

And don’t forget the DUP have already said they will support the Government, their ‘Beef’ is the Irish part of the deal, they are onboard for anything else
Some Posters think a new Leader might emerge. Well IMO it won’t be the favourite from either wing, if they can’t unite under May who thinks they will under say Boris or Rudd

No, in such a case if would be ‘grey suit’ another John Major perhaps, who will please nobody
 

John T

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Regardless;n3423292 said:
But I did just see on the news that Paddy is indeed right. They say that they do have 14 days to regain confidence - by whatever means... but it does sound like it's the norm for the govt to resign there and then.

Having said that, if ever there was a government / prime minister who might ignore that norm....
Yes under the Parliament Act passed by the Coalition that is indeed Correct

The Queen would be obliged to ask the leader of the largest Party to form a Government
But has I indicated in my last post, who that might be is anyone’s guess

If no one in the largest Party could or would, the ‘Our Dear Jeremy’ might well be asked to give it a go
Good luck with that. The Scots Nats will immediately want a second referendum in Scotland as a condition of support.
We all KNOW such a thing as a replay doesn’t bother them at all
 

NORTHENDRTOPS

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28th March 1979 Thatcher brought a vonc against Jim Callaghan's government and Labour lost by 1 vote and following this defeat "Spitting Roy Hattersley" said " This marks the last rites of old Labour" I noticed yesterday that this greasy pole has started to slide back into the limelight.
 
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Strongbow

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raefil;n3423083 said:
she will probably win the NC vote however she will also know that there is no way any progress will be made that doesnt involve all sections of Parliament. We should get,now, what it should have been right from day one. A cross party working party to progress this forward.

Ive said that from day one, no way should Brexit ever have been done in the "Ideological," manner that the Tories attempted to do. Its way to big a deal for that crap.
Thought you said is was a 'tory gig' ;)
 

Strongbow

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chorleythehord;n3423127 said:
I think if you check back about 18 months you will find there was an invitation from the government to create some form of cross party Working party to deliver Brexit that was declined by Corbyn.

There are some some people who are staunch Brexiteers who would be prepared to go no deal if that is what it takes , and I am one of them

There are some people who believe the May deal was an acceptable ,if not ideal, solution and is a reasonable compromise given the 52/48 split. I understand this position but I don’t agree with it.

There are some people who are staunch remainers who simply want to overturn the referendum result. I respect them and their democratic right to campaign this way, but I disagree with them.

Then there are those that that either don’t really give a toss either way over Brexit, or are disingenuous in their views, and are simply using the Brexit Impasse to create political capital for themselves. Those are the people that I utterly despise. The lowest of the low.
Didn't know that but not surprised as in the main the Labour parties clamour for power (understandable as is) has led them to put Party before Country for the last 2 years if we are all being honest.
 

kbd_pne

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paddysr;n3423086 said:
Agree entirely. Should have been a "wartime coalition" from the start. There should have been a cross-party Brexit team working towards the best deal.

Something of this size is bigger than simple bi-partizan politics and the fact that they couldn't see that shows just how far removed from reality the Tories are.
When you party you support are out of power, it’s very easy to say the government should be gifting them power and a big say. If the Tories were in opposition for Brexit, I doubt you’d be saying that they need to be involved in negotiations.

It would be difficult for Labour to be very involved anyway, given that they don’t have much of a policy on Brexit.

Also, working together with the Tories as well would hinder how much they could oppose their flagship policy. All well and good saying everyone should work together, but politics in this country is probably just too partisan for that.
 
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