Zoning Out

[HunterLionheart]

This particular debate will rage on like it has for what... Decades now? Both have pros and cons. Being angry about it feels very 'old man yells at cloud'.

 

[bobbydavro]

Zonal or Man Marking? The Best Marking System From Corners

In contrast to the way the game used to be played, we are seeing more and more managers opt for a zonal marking approach from corners.

lastwordonsports.com

decent article

 

[Hurlock. T]

Having looked at it a couple of times I just think Boro have done their homework. It appears to fall in Bauers zone but he is blocked off by Samba (I think) which is why I believe Hughes is very slow to react.

This is correct.

When McNair starts the run it looks like Hughes should be picking him up - but he can't he has to protect his zone. The ball ends up in Bauer's zone and therefore he should be the one to attack it. Earl should be blocking off Bamba but he has let him run straight past him and in doing so Bauer is both then totally distracted by, and blocked off by, Bamba. It looks like Hughes has made a mistake when to be fair he has actually spotted the danger and does all he can to try and get across there and put McNair off the header.

I think there is a lot to be said for zonal marking and there is a reason they do it. However, as well as those marking the zone it is hugely reliant on those further out blocking runs and making a real nuisance of themselves. Those doing that are usually the ones that also fail at man marking too though, so it's a catch 22. But personally I bet we would concede more overall if we man marked.

 

[Paul Szacsky]

In order to create a spare man to mark zones, we'd have to leave at least 1 up on the halfway line as well to take 2 of their men out which we don't do.
I agree with what you're saying, but it needs a total change of philosophy on corners.

I do my nut about this every time, especially as Riis can't head a ball to save his life, just stick him on the half way line ready for the release ball...they'd deffo put two men on him as he has pace and they'd be shit scared. As it is we pack every player in our box allowing the opposition to do the same and to stick a couple of guys on the edge for the chance of a volley if a clearance drops short.
Madness in my opinion.

 

[SF]

To be fair, no one was singing the praises of zonal marking when we used it to not concede from a set piece for 20 odd games.

Zonal makes more sense as a concept to me, but I’ve never been able to find any decent stats showing which set up is actually better.

I’d be interested to read if anyone has some stats on jt

Was it you who said it's better to have a mixture? As I agree with that.

Have the three centre backs pick up the opposition's main aerial threats and everyone else mark space and block runners.

Makes sense to me, if you have players who aren't naturally good at defending set pieces then it's easy to become too static and ball watch in a man marking system. Zonal marking keeps them on their toes and you can sometimes double up on players.

 

[Thracia]

This is correct.

When McNair starts the run it looks like Hughes should be picking him up - but he can't he has to protect his zone. The ball ends up in Bauer's zone and therefore he should be the one to attack it. Earl should be blocking off Bamba but he has let him run straight past him and in doing so Bauer is both then totally distracted by, and blocked off by, Bamba. It looks like Hughes has made a mistake when to be fair he has actually spotted the danger and does all he can to try and get across there and put McNair off the header.

I think there is a lot to be said for zonal marking and there is a reason they do it. However, as well as those marking the zone it is hugely reliant on those further out blocking runs and making a real nuisance of themselves. Those doing that are usually the ones that also fail at man marking too though, so it's a catch 22. But personally I bet we would concede more overall if we man marked.

This begs the question - who should've been picking up McNair, who had the freedom of the penalty box?

 

[Realistic]

To even begin to understand it you need a dining table
Various condiment bottles, a couple of candlesticks (nets) and some quality street wrappers made into a ball
Or a subutteo set - preferably the stadium edition

And a router to gouge out the channels and holes.

 

[Sid Snot]

Drinking straws and blu tak ?

The long straw is you, Patrick. The short straw is you, Sean. The straw with the bow attached is you, Ernie.

 

[Final Stand]

A zone never scored, i just don't get it.

Really?

It’s only players that score goals, so mark the player not the zonal space.

 

[Tino]

"Honest" Frankie just gives out random statements knowing our media team will never pull him up on them.

How many set piece goals have we conceded this season? I know about the last 2 games, how about before that.

 

[Lee Trundle]

Was it you who said it's better to have a mixture? As I agree with that.

Have the three centre backs pick up the opposition's main aerial threats and everyone else mark space and block runners.

Makes sense to me, if you have players who aren't naturally good at defending set pieces then it's easy to become too static and ball watch in a man marking system. Zonal marking keeps them on their toes and you can sometimes double up on players.

It was yeah.

I actually thought for the goal, the system worked quite well.

Browne blocks off the run of McNair, before dropping into his zone leaving Hughes the opportunity to attack it. They had loads of corners and Hughes won plenty of headers defending the exact same way

Just on that particular corner, Browne could be a bit more physical with McNair and Hughes has to react so much quicker.

It’s much more a Hughes issue than it is an issue of zonal marking.

 

[baysidepne]

How many set piece goals have we conceded this season? I know about the last 2 games, how about before that.

6 in total according to The Analyst.

 

[Tino]

6 in total according to The Analyst.

Thank you, so presuming those 6 are all in the league that's from 25 goals conceded.

Be interesting to see how that compares to everyone else, it doesn't feel like a major long term problem to me.

 

[Libertine]

6 in total according to The Analyst.

Oh no, I've not seen that website before. I think you might have started another obsession for me. Thanks

By set pieces are we talking corner, free kicks and throw ins around the box or do they just mean corners specifically do you know?

 

[simo]

Oh no, I've not seen that website before. I think you might have started another obsession for me. Thanks

By set pieces are we talking corner, free kicks and throw ins around the box or do they just mean corners specifically do you know?

It just says set-plays.

For info, across the whole championship 22% conceded from set plays, we are at 26%. So about par, but always room for improvement.

 

[Lee Trundle]

6 in total according to The Analyst.

Is there any way to access the underlying data for that site?

Their data sets look massive, but I only seem to be able to view a few pre-made tables.

Assume there is maybe a subscription service if you want the data as well

 

[Fluffs]

Was it you who said it's better to have a mixture? As I agree with that.

Have the three centre backs pick up the opposition's main aerial threats and everyone else mark space and block runners.

Makes sense to me, if you have players who aren't naturally good at defending set pieces then it's easy to become too static and ball watch in a man marking system. Zonal marking keeps them on their toes and you can sometimes double up on players.

Totally agree. We literally have all 11 players back in the box for corners anyway. There should be enough there to do both.

Looking back at the replay, when the ball is headed by McNair we had 6 men within 2 yards of him. Bamba had 3 men blocked off himself. I know these things happen in a second and it is easy to criticize from here but we need to do better, especially when all of our players are back in the box.

 

[LostinSpace]

Totally agree. We literally have all 11 players back in the box for corners anyway. There should be enough there to do both.

Looking back at the replay, when the ball is headed by McNair we had 6 men within 2 yards of him. Bamba had 3 men blocked off himself. I know these things happen in a second and it is easy to criticize from here but we need to do better, especially when all of our players are back in the box.

This really winds me up, we need at least one player to pick up clearances some where near the half way line, otherwise the ball just gets pinged back into the box every time.

 

[Hurlock. T]

This begs the question - who should've been picking up McNair, who had the freedom of the penalty box?

No-one. You will always have an overload of opposition players because of the 4 zonal markers. Sometimes someone is assigned to try and stop someone in particular but otherwise they pick up whoever’s there. Browne had two big lads to start with (see attachment) so one was always going to have a free run.

For me I don’t understand McCanns position. Barky and VDB had that area. It’s a danger area as Liverpool found out against Chelsea (Kai Havertz) but I don’t think it’s as big a risk as leaving space in the middle. If McCann was with or near Browne when it came in that goal wouldn’t have happened. I’m not blaming McCann mind as they are clearly set up that way.

 

[noelpne]

But Frankie says we're really good at defending set pieces.

Maybe Storey was the good one.

Seriously? When did he say that????
Haven't the last three out of five been Dead Ball scenarios?
Bread & Butter stuff, to Fulham's forwards, those, as well