I won’t reach for the cliched ostrich picture. It’s what I’m thinking though.
Swerved the " stock market " issue too I notice. And I'm the ostrich?
I won’t reach for the cliched ostrich picture. It’s what I’m thinking though.
Depends what you mean by UK Senior managers - but I think a big majority of business leaders were dead against it. And most economists and politicians.…and many of those clowns pushed for Brexit!
Yes, UK senior managers are a problem and Brexit has given us yet another disadvantage. Face it Libs, Brexit has been a disaster.
Are you comparing like with like, Reg? You said that you were not counting the FTSE 100 because it isn't as representative of British companies, but you are setting the FTSE 250 against share indices that are not representative of their countries in exactly the same way,I haven't seen this mentioned (not that I read widely on the topic)... nor am I certain to what extent Brexit is to blame, nor the importance. But it looks damning at face value.
Here's the FTSE250 graph for the last 5 years. This index has gone up less than 1% in 5 years (despite inflation being something well over 20% in that time). I could have printed the FTSE100, which has gone up by about 7% in that time... but my understanding is that the FTSE250 is more representative of UK companies.
The performances of all the other share indices (which aren't cherry picked... just the first few on the BBC Market Data website) are very closely bunched together having gone up by roughly 50%. I'm sure there are many nuances... but the difference is massive. If you take inflation into account, the value of UK PLC seems to be dropping remarkably and inexorably.
UK FTSE250
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Here is Amsterdam
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And Paris
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And Frankfurt
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And the Dow Jones in New York
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Yes, you’re probably right, what I should’ve said was far right business owners.Depends what you mean by UK Senior managers - but I think a big majority of business leaders were dead against it. And most economists and politicians.
If you’d said Russian Senior manager managers, it would have rung more true!
You still think Brexit’s wonderful then? 😏I knew you'd turn up
Can you show us a graph from 2016 to 2020? the biggest nosedive was during covid, then in 2022 then can we see a graph for January 2024 to the present day?Here's a graph of UK vs European stocks over the last 5 years, guess which is the blue line.
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...and yes it does matter. It's a pretty good picture of how our companies have been performing.
That graph includes the Covid nose dive and continues to the present day. Unfortunately I can only go back 5 years on the app I was using so can’t show 2016, I’m sure it’s findable though. From memory, there was a dip in UK shares after the referendum result too.Can you show us a graph from 2016 to 2020? the biggest nosedive was during covid, then in 2022 then can we see a graph for January 2024 to the present day?
Swerved the " stock market " issue too I notice. And I'm the ostrich?
Are you comparing like with like, Reg? You said that you were not counting the FTSE 100 because it isn't as representative of British companies, but you are setting the FTSE 250 against share indices that are not representative of their countries in exactly the same way,
What are the charts like for indices that are more similar to the FTSE 250 and cover small and medium companies? Would suspect that they are not very different because national economies in Europe are pretty stagnant at the moment and have been for some time, just like the UK.
Suggest you look at the economic basket case that is Germany
Did they leave the EU?
If we ever did rejoin we would have to use the Euro and have Schengen try selling that to the British public
As for the Government the Remainers are in charge and we are still saddled to thousands of EU rules
No,,, they didn't leave the EU. The document you linked to explains what specific problems they face.
You're right that the UK would have trouble negotiating satisfactory terms for re-entry, should we ever want it as a nation (61% currently do). We used to have a fantastic privileged position of being outside the Euro, Schengen and also had rebates on our contributions. Well done Brexit voters for throwing that away for nothing (actually... for a lot less than nothing!). Maybe we can find a way to negotiate some of that back... I wouldn't rule out that we could persuade them to let us keep the pound and be outside Schengen - but there would surely (and reasonably) be a price to pay, I guess.
Last time I looked, the government was run by committed brexiteers. I guess it wasn't as simple as they claimed to sweep away all that "red tape".
Be like Norway?No,,, they didn't leave the EU. The document you linked to explains what specific problems they face.
You're right that the UK would have trouble negotiating satisfactory terms for re-entry, should we ever want it as a nation (61% currently do). We used to have a fantastic privileged position of being outside the Euro, Schengen and also had rebates on our contributions. Well done Brexit voters for throwing that away for nothing (actually... for a lot less than nothing!). Maybe we can find a way to negotiate some of that back... I wouldn't rule out that we could persuade them to let us keep the pound and be outside Schengen - but there would surely (and reasonably) be a price to pay, I guess.
Last time I looked, the government was run by committed brexiteers. I guess it wasn't as simple as they claimed to sweep away all that "red tape".
But then we would have to be in Schengen and I’m not the biggest fan of that.Be like Norway?
I am not saying that stock markets haven't been affected, just that you are not comparing the same things.My OP on this was clearly painting a broad brush picture and I did openly set out my caveats... including stating that FTSE100 has seen a rise of 7%. Sure.. the picture MIGHT look different if you look at other indices... but 7% is a million miles from the 50% par score for other European and American indices. I'd be very surprised if, whichever way you cut it, if there wasn't still be a massive difference.
It is a worrying trend and, as we discussed a while back (this is not a Brexit point but a general one), Europe and the UK are struggling post covid/energy crisis - the US is doing 'socialist' things with respect to state aid and protectionism, while the Chinese are exposing Europe's lack of investment and foresight with hi-tech industry (I am no fan of Scholz, but Merkel/Schauble left an almighty mess).This article has some useful data, highlights how Europe(incl Uk) is hampered by clinging onto national exchanges as a source of pride. Technically, the one way to compete with the US would be to have a quasi-Euro exchange but never going to happen(….or is it…)
Things like investment cultures vs holding cash differs around the world too, Europe and the UK still live cash under the mattress.
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In charts: why European stock markets are in crisis
Policymakers try to revive IPOs and trading volumes but plans are fragmented and progress has been slowwww.ft.com
As for the original point of the decline in UK PLC, one of the charts is a fairly stark reminder, we were on the decline for decades. The Brexit drop was comparatively small compared to what had gone before
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