Lord Edgington
Patron
This is the issue with case law
How on earth are those boundaries set?
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Capital punishment
- Thread starter Lord Edgington
- Start date
How on earth are those boundaries set?
Exactly - the legal system is always going to be flawed, is always open to human interpretation, and mistakes will be made wherever you decide to try and set a boundary - hence the need for appeals etc. The problem with the death sentence is that it is the one thing that cannot be undone.
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It's OK, if an innocent person is executed, we can then execute all the people involved in convicting them and carrying out the execution.
Stabbing 3 kids to death in Southport isn't obvious?.... Mind you the authorities and his mental health will get the blame for that no doubt.
If there's any doubt whatsoever then I wouldn't advocate it. Letby being a good example as mentioned yesterday. Probably guilty but I wouldn't hang her. I'd have hung Brady, Hindley and West though.
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There will no doubt be an enquiry about his engagement, if any, with mental health services.
There's no debate about just how neglected this area has been since 2010.
Again, that is not addressing my point. You are bringing cases where it does appear obvious. but what about other cases that are less obvious. Where is the boundary for whether you decide to execute someone or not? There needs to be one somewhere, legally, and it is a question that needs answering before we even get near going down that path.
Murder IS murder. Capital punishment is not. Murder, by definition, requires malice aforethought. Capital punishment is the institutional, publicized response to such actions. It's a possible consequence to a choice made by the offender.
I understand your point completely. It's open to abuse,corruption and fuck ups..... My point is that there are cases where it isn't even open to discussion and they should be removed permanently from society......There are such cases and that's a fact. You're arguing a grey area and on that we agree.
Lord Edgington
Patron
Another thought
Some of the individuals who might fall into the alleged no doubt category have numerous cronies who bizarrely look up to them
Applying CP could give them legendary status whereas a lifetime in prison would see them slowly but surely disappear into an abyss of anonymity?
Some of the individuals who might fall into the alleged no doubt category have numerous cronies who bizarrely look up to them
Applying CP could give them legendary status whereas a lifetime in prison would see them slowly but surely disappear into an abyss of anonymity?
Huntley is another obvious case of 100% guilty.
Sutcliffe was another.
When you have tens of witnesses, CCTV, Mobile Phone evidence, then evidence is pretty much conclusive whom the guilty party is.
I agree with @Liberation, when the evidence is 100% cast iron, then a length of rope should be re-introduced.
People say "rehabilitate them".
Ok, they served their time, have been "rehabilitated inside", would you be comfy living next door to the above 2 I mentioned? Offering them a job? Having them date a family member or friend?
Yes, I know both got "life terms" and Huntley is unlikely to be ever released but there are others similar who will one day be released - and likely to re-offend.
Obviously a bit tricky with Sutcliffe given he's dead but you get my point(s).
Trying to successfully rehabilitate evil scum is like trying to rehabilitate a snake not to eat rodents.
Sutcliffe was another.
When you have tens of witnesses, CCTV, Mobile Phone evidence, then evidence is pretty much conclusive whom the guilty party is.
I agree with @Liberation, when the evidence is 100% cast iron, then a length of rope should be re-introduced.
People say "rehabilitate them".
Ok, they served their time, have been "rehabilitated inside", would you be comfy living next door to the above 2 I mentioned? Offering them a job? Having them date a family member or friend?
Yes, I know both got "life terms" and Huntley is unlikely to be ever released but there are others similar who will one day be released - and likely to re-offend.
Obviously a bit tricky with Sutcliffe given he's dead but you get my point(s).
Trying to successfully rehabilitate evil scum is like trying to rehabilitate a snake not to eat rodents.
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You dont rehabilitate mass murderers, they go to prison for life, with it meaning life.
At what cost to the taxpayer in times when money is tight?
I'll tell you the exact cost. Still think the below is "value for money"? When cuts are being made everywhere?
Cost per prisoner England and Wales 2023 | Statista
In 2022/23, the average cost of a prison place in England and Wales was 51,724 British pounds a year, compared with 46,696 British pounds in the previous reporting year.
www.statista.com
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Ive said before as a democratic society we have to accept that it costs, even the justice and penal system.At what cost to the taxpayer in times when money is tight?
I'll tell you the exact cost. Still think the below is "value for money"? When cuts are being made everywhere?
Cost per prisoner England and Wales 2023 | Statista
In 2022/23, the average cost of a prison place in England and Wales was 51,724 British pounds a year, compared with 46,696 British pounds in the previous reporting year.
Agree to disagree on this issue then.
Saves us both going around the block numerous times repeating and repeating boring everyone.
There were a number of studies in the US (including federal and state governments) showing that the death sentence actually costs much more than imprisonment - one of the reasons why even republicans in the US are turning against it. That is just the court costs etc. - if you are going to have the death penalty, then the investments you need to make in testing labs and other top-class facilities are a lot of money.At what cost to the taxpayer in times when money is tight?
I'll tell you the exact cost. Still think the below is "value for money"? When cuts are being made everywhere?
Cost per prisoner England and Wales 2023 | Statista
In 2022/23, the average cost of a prison place in England and Wales was 51,724 British pounds a year, compared with 46,696 British pounds in the previous reporting year.
The moral argument is one thing - but the financial argument does not stack up.
I think the line that @Sepp Blatter refers to and is worried about is simple ..ie my answer is when it's "irrefutable"...... Why on earth would/should we rehabilitate evil? Why on earth should we finance their ongoing existence when they snuffed out others on a whim?
I can't verify the facts and you have to ignore the drama for TV but where do we stand on this? Revenge or Justice?:
Justice…
I don’t feel sorry for any of those “ victims “ , got what they deserved and it didn’t cost any money to keep them locked up for 30+ years
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My thoughts on capital punishment are pretty clear but I cant condemn a single act that has happened in this video.
In fact ive often said that the only ones who deserve revenge are the family of those murdered. The woman in the first story had to go inside, no doubt but.............
Criminal she certainly isnt.
Which is an oxymoron. Difficult isn't it but we'll have to remain separated on this one....I don't honestly believe there is a difference between justice and revenge if it's warranted and certainly not worth quibbling over.