Economic migrants or refugees?

Nah, finally people are waking up and losing the fear of pointing out the fucking obvious.
You and your ilk don’t hold any power over anyone anymore, your pointless, childish and pathetic name calling has achieved the opposite of what you wanted it to do.

You’re even getting so desperate to evoke the Nazis again. Pathetic.

Maybe everyone should be quiet for the sake of diversity eh?

There is some truth in what you say. People are certainly tired of the knee-jerk racist response. It’s become meaningless and impotent.

They’ll just say the police are racist towards Albanians, Somalis, Afghans etc but fail to notice that there are some communities (unnamed above) whose arrest rate is below that of White Brits.
 
A lot of young men in particular from within certain communities , believe objectifying women is fine especially if those women are perhaps another race or another ethnicity.
There is a whole wider debate about the objectification of women by young men going on - driven by porn and, IMO, embedded in the gender ideology. I don't necessarily disagree that certain cultures bring baggage with them (and I do not care for it), but let's not forget the wider problem or assume that the 'right' is somehow going to champion the emancipation of women. Previous experience suggests that is not always the case.
 
There is a whole wider debate about the objectification of women by young men going on - driven by porn and, IMO, embedded in the gender ideology. I don't necessarily disagree that certain cultures bring baggage with them (and I do not care for it), but let's not forget the wider problem or assume that the 'right' is somehow going to champion the emancipation of women. Previous experience suggests that is not always the case.

The right is a necessary voice but better kept away from leadership. However, the more you tell people that the concerns they voice make them far right, the more likely they are to end up being elected to lead.
 
The right is a necessary voice but better kept away from leadership. However, the more you tell people that the concerns they voice make them far right, the more likely they are to end up being elected to lead.
Don't disagree, but my point is that it works both ways - if you tell people that their reasonable concerns make them woke communists and apologists for child rape, the same applies. IMO, some of those on the right of the spectrum are starting to do the same things they called out in others - calling for censorship in particular, but increasingly falling into the 'you are either with us or against us' mentality is another.
 
Don't disagree, but my point is that it works both ways - if you tell people that their reasonable concerns make them woke communists and apologists for child rape, the same applies. IMO, some of those on the right of the spectrum are starting to do the same things they called out in others - calling for censorship in particular, but increasingly falling into the 'you are either with us or against us' mentality is another.

This has been coming for a long time.
 
Right, Left or what the fook I'm totally indifferent to...... But in the middle of those two ludicrous descriptions are a huge mass of " reasonable " folk that need to be listened to rather than be closed down........ And in my view therein lies our big problem. We aren't listening.

Been saying it for years. Entering smug-mode 🤣
 
Right, Left or what the fook I'm totally indifferent to...... But in the middle of those two ludicrous descriptions are a huge mass of " reasonable " folk that need to be listened to rather than be closed down........ And in my view therein lies our big problem. We aren't listening to them.

Good to see you back fella, your input has been missed. Trust everythings been ok?
 
The starting point has got to be people in power acknowledging we have a problem in this country with immigration and we have a problem with Islam.

That doesn't mean we have a problem with all immigrants or the whole muslim population, not even a majority of them.

It doesnt mean we don't have other problems in this country that need addressing also.

It doesnt mean we are going to blanket ban all immigration, outlaw Islam or send millions of people back to their homeland

I challenge everyone to simply say it - it is quite evidently true and I do not know why we seek to hide it away, tiptoe around it, deflect to other issues or pretend it doesnt exist.

No problem can be resolved when people refuse to acknowledge it exists.
 
The starting point has got to be people in power acknowledging we have a problem in this country with immigration and we have a problem with Islam.

That doesn't mean we have a problem with all immigrants or the whole muslim population, not even a majority of them.

It doesnt mean we don't have other problems in this country that need addressing also.

It doesnt mean we are going to blanket ban all immigration, outlaw Islam or send millions of people back to their homeland

I challenge everyone to simply say it - it is quite evidently true and I do not know why we seek to hide it away, tiptoe around it, deflect to other issues or pretend it doesnt exist.

No problem can be resolved when people refuse to acknowledge it exists.

why does the immigration problem, and i agree it is a problem, exist?

May be simplistic but, IMHO, since the days of thatcher this country has increasingly outsourced its manufacturing base and thus the incentive to properly train our own people.

The problem of illegal immigration is actually miniscule in the grand scheme of our over reliance on immigrant Labour.

Yes, we also have to admit that the our forefathers have played a massive part on landing this country with the problems we have now.

I also think its time we stopped burying our heads in the sand and realise that our £3 trillion debt is not going to go away, possibly ever.

Until and unless we invest in proper training, by that I do mean genuine apprenticeships then our over reliance on immigration is not going to go away.
 
why does the immigration problem, and i agree it is a problem, exist?

May be simplistic but, IMHO, since the days of thatcher this country has increasingly outsourced its manufacturing base and thus the incentive to properly train our own people.

The problem of illegal immigration is actually miniscule in the grand scheme of our over reliance on immigrant Labour.

Yes, we also have to admit that the our forefathers have played a massive part on landing this country with the problems we have now.

I also think its time we stopped burying our heads in the sand and realise that our £3 trillion debt is not going to go away, possibly ever.

Until and unless we invest in proper training, by that I do mean genuine apprenticeships then our over reliance on immigration is not going to go away.

I believe a lot of the current issues can be traced back to the Blair government. 3 key decisions:

Deciding to stick our nose in to the affairs of the Middle East and their backwards way of life and to go to war in Iraq, causing mass displacement.

Deciding that university education was for all, not just the top 5% or 10% or whatever. Hundreds of thousands of our young people in pointless debt with useless degrees whilst jobs that they could have taken up or trained for we recruit from abroad for.

Deciding to throw open our borders to try and socially engineer a multicultural society , an experiment that has spectacularly backfired.

I honestly think its too late for Britain to fully recover from these and previous failings. But all 3 must absolutely not form part of any future policy. As you point out the debt is unsustainable, we have relied on cheap immigrant labour to address our own failings as a society, and we are now, in large areas of the country, living in a society that is borderline sectarian.
 
I believe a lot of the current issues can be traced back to the Blair government. 3 key decisions:

Deciding to stick our nose in to the affairs of the Middle East and their backwards way of lifeand to go to war in Iraq, causing mass displacement.

Deciding that university education was for all, not just the top 5% or 10% or whatever. Hundreds of thousands of our young people in pointless debt with useless degrees whilst jobs that they could have taken up or trained for we recruit from abroad for.

Deciding to throw open our borders to try and socially engineer a multicultural society , an experiment that has spectacularly backfired.

I honestly think its too late for Britain to fully recover from these and previous failings. But all 3 must absolutely not form part of any future policy. As you point out the debt is unsustainable, we have relied on cheap immigrant labour to address our own failings as a society, and we are now, in large areas of the country, living in a society that is borderline sectarian.

Theres a lot I agree with in there, the main one i only agree partially is

Deciding to throw open our borders to try and socially engineer a multicultural society ,


For me that was only a cover for what the real motive was and that was to enable wealth to move upwards by bringing in a low waged workforce. Something they knew, absolutely would be rejected en masse, by using an acceptable soundbyte, to many, like multiculturalism worked well, especially to those on the left side of the political spectrum.

It was never about that though.

The part of your post that does make me cringe is one that implies, and im sure its not intentional on your part, is that somehow we are superior to other cultural beliefs.

Deciding to stick our nose in to the affairs of the Middle East and their backwards way of life

They certainly arent beliefs that I would ever have a truck with but for way too long, and this coincides with parts of your post i absolutely do agree with, weve gone into other countries, not only in the middle east and attempted to impose our values on other peoples cultural identities.
 
Theres a lot I agree with in there, the main one i only agree partially is




For me that was only a cover for what the real motive was and that was to enable wealth to move upwards by bringing in a low waged workforce. Something they knew, absolutely would be rejected en masse, by using an acceptable soundbyte, to many, like multiculturalism worked well, especially to those on the left side of the political spectrum.

It was never about that though.

The part of your post that does make me cringe is one that implies, and im sure its not intentional on your part, is that somehow we are superior to other cultural beliefs.



They certainly arent beliefs that I would ever have a truck with but for way too long, and this coincides with parts of your post i absolutely do agree with, weve gone into other countries, not only in the middle east and attempted to impose our values on other peoples cultural identities.

I’m afraid I’ve hardened over the years. At the time we started sticking our nose in to Iraq and Afghanistan I was at least partially persuaded about the merits of our efforts and the supposed attempts to enlighten them with liberal democracy. I am now of the view that if they want to run their country through mad dictators and theocracies , throwing homosexuals off buildings, stoning women adulterers to death, enforcing ridiculous and illiberal clothing restrictions and the like ( that I personally find a backwards way to live) then that is their choice and their own peoples responsibility to change it , by force if they have to. Nothing to do with us.
 
I’m afraid I’ve hardened over the years. At the time we started sticking our nose in to Iraq and Afghanistan I was at least partially persuaded about the merits of our efforts and the supposed attempts to enlighten them with liberal democracy. I am now of the view that if they want to run their country through mad dictators and theocracies , throwing homosexuals off buildings, stoning women adulterers to death, enforcing ridiculous and illiberal clothing restrictions and the like ( that I personally find a backwards way to live) then that is their choice and their own peoples responsibility to change it , by force if they have to. Nothing to do with us.

Its a strange one. Ive never been to Iraq but I have been to Afghanistan, albeit that was way back in the late 70s. I found it such a fascinating place and the people were absolutely fantastic.

Even then, though, if we wanted travel, in the country, we were only allowed to do so in an escorted convoy. That was for our own protection.
 
"All cultures are equal" said no one with an ounce of common sense and decency.
But raefil has been to Afghanistan and they are "absolutely fantastic" and the place is "fascinating"
I bet it is raefil, I bet it is.. .
 
Looks like keir has played a blinder today with his little everyone is 'far right' rant, what an inept individual.

They don’t get it. This only works when you have a good economy and all regions and sections of the society are benefiting from it. At present he is only speaking to a shrinking, comfortable, cosmopolitan middle-class.
 
"All cultures are equal" said no one with an ounce of common sense and decency.
But raefil has been to Afghanistan and they are "absolutely fantastic" and the place is "fascinating"
I bet it is raefil, I bet it is.. .


We should get our beak out of this country and others like it whilst simultaneously cleaning up our own. We need to make this country a better place to live for everyone, reward hard work and decency.
 
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